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Old 11-29-2009, 04:44 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Interpreting BER

Bit Error Rate

The bit error rate of a digital system is the number of errors of bits in relation to time. The bit error rate (BER) is the digital expression of the signal quality or signal-to-noise ratio. BER is digital signal quality and it depends on SNR. (You may want to read "Signal Quality and the RF Front End" if you haven't.) http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-...front-end.html

How does BER relate to a signal meter?

To understand the BER, let's put it in the context of a signal quality meter. There are several benchmarks in BER that are identified with performance.

A system can get lock on a signal as low as 10 -1 bit error rate (BER). It would be the lowest signal quality meter reading that you can still have reception. You can in most cases watch a program “as long as you have lock”. With my digital converter box (which has both strength and quality readings) this is around 58-60 in signal strength and 17-19 in signal quality. Everyday for a couple of years I've watched programming at this level of signal. I choose to view at this level because this is where I get to see the widest variety, and largest number of compression artifacts.

As we will see, digital isn't "all-or-nothing" and lock is enough for a picture, but not enough for great picture quality. If you think just having lock gives you great picture, then here is some information that you might be interested in knowing.

MPEG compression (Forward Error Correction) doesn't even start working until the BER reaches 10-4! Or conversely, FEC stops working when you drop below 10-4 BER. Lock can and does occur at signal level that has insufficient information to even get the FEC to work. If you are watching a program that is very close to lock, the error correction isn’t even working. (As a matter of fact, the misnamed “digital cliff” (more later) is caused by MPEG FEC. The “fast drop” comes with the sudden loss of the correction benefits of MPEG as signal fluctuations cause the BER to cross the 10-4 threshold where MPEG stops working.

It is obvious that not everyone will see a problem at low signal levels. Some will have compromised picture quality but won’t notice. Cool! They don’t have to worry about picture quality concerns at all (save money on calibration, too). Others who have eyes to see, may notice a blurry or grainy picture, and other compression artifacts. Still others (with eyes to see) may not experience deficiency in performance that is visible. The degraded performance may show up in loss of signal, pixilation, timer issues, lip sync, DVR function, and an array of compression artifacts. The bottom line is that errors increase as SNR decreases, and signal quality is the determinant factor in all areas of performance from stability and function to quality.

Another notable bit rate benchmark is 10-6. A bit error rate of 10-6 is the point where, below 10-6, the average person perceives a degraded picture. 10-6 BER is also the Quasi error free (QEF) point described as one visible error per hour. If there HAS to be a minimum to be achieved (versus maximizing your signal at the highest level obtainable which is what should be the goal), 10-6 is that minimum for "good quality" viewing, the Quasi Error Free point. It is at this point that FEC has enough good information from the signal to give its best guesses about the stuff that is corrupted or missing.

With Dish Network, I believe the QEF point of 10-6 to be about 66, including some headroom to stay above 10-6. When watching Dish programming received at 55 on the signal meter, it is clear that this is short of the goal of 10-6 as evidenced by the far greater number of errors seen. Remember that 10-6 is characterized as ONE visible artifact per hour.

MPEG error correction is in full swing at 10-6 BER input and with all of its tools and tricks, the output “resembles” a much lower but higher quality BER. At BER of 10-6 there are still a lot of errors but the forward error correction (FEC) compensates, covers, and hides the errors quite well for a BER of 10-6 and fewer errors.

It is not until we've moved further up the signal quality performance scale, to a BER of 10 -10, do we reach the benchmark labeled "High quality video". Here is where “WOW!” is actually found! For the most discriminating eye and for the highest quality picture with trouble free performance, this is really where we want to be! Beyond a BER of 10-10, the top end of the scale is between 10-12 and 10-13. In this area there becomes too much signal for the digital signal processor and it becomes overloaded resulting in pixilation and loss of signal similar to the bottom of the scale.

Here's the thing...digital performance is not actually "all-or-nothing". If the BER performance were actually “all-or-nothing”, a graph of it would be a straight line. A straight horizontal line on a graph represents "no change", or a constant value; which is exactly what we would expect in an "All-or-nothing" scenario.

When we actually take a look at the digital performance graphs, the first thing we see is that we are not dealing with a straight line of constant performance, but a curved line denoting variable performance. While the "digital cliff" idea only hints at the inaccuracy of the "All-or-nothing" fable, it has been known for quite some time that there isn't even a digital "cliff", but rather a digital waterfall. It seems to me that no one wants to tell us about it.

Here's a quote from an article written in 2002, How Forward Error Correction Works

"Represented graphically, the general error-performance characteristics of most digital communication systems have a waterfall-shaped appearance. System performance improves (i.e., bit-error rate decreases) as the signal-to-noise ratio increases."

Here is the link: How Forward Error-Correcting Codes Work

I found the graph in this article to be in a strange orientation, versus what I would call a typical graph. I am accustomed to viewing a graph that increases in performance when read from left to right. This graph presents the digital waterfall, but the way it is oriented, you might think, as I did at first, that the “water’ is flowing “down”, from left to right, but that is not correct. For the “waterfall”, to be accurately reflected as flowing “down” (as water does) requires a different orientation.

To view the graph in a more sensible fashion (reading left to right, low performance to high performance, I have included the graph with its new orientation.

This graph gives clear evidence of the BER to SNR relationship and now, with different orientation, represents a performance graph from “nothing” (bottom left), to higher performance as we read to the right.

This graph represents only the portion that used to be called the “digital cliff” but is more accurately called the digital waterfall.

I'll leave you with a couple more graphs.

Note: You might notice that the graph in the article only represents BER in the range of 10-1 to 10-6, or so. It is quite common in the BER/performance graphs that I have found, for them to only include portions of the total graph. Common among them are graphs that stop at 10-4 or 10-6. These stopping points are common because 10-4 is where you should reach for FEC to begin working and 10-6 is where you should be to begin watching really good (but not "High Quality") video.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg wpe2.JPG (43.1 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg BER vs system loss.jpg (7.2 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg bit_error_probability_ber_curve markup_bpsk.JPG (66.3 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg ERRORCHT.jpg (7.9 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg image036.jpg (17.4 KB, 9 views)

Last edited by highdefjeff; 11-29-2009 at 04:53 PM.
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Old 11-29-2009, 05:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Wow! Great Stuff!
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Old 11-30-2009, 09:15 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by highdefjeff View Post
It is not until we've moved further up the signal quality performance scale, to a BER of 10 -10, do we reach the benchmark labeled "High quality video". Here is where “WOW!” is actually found! For the most discriminating eye and for the highest quality picture with trouble free performance, this is really where we want to be! Beyond a BER of 10-10, the top end of the scale is between 10-12 and 10-13. In this area there becomes too much signal for the digital signal processor and it becomes overloaded resulting in pixilation and loss of signal similar to the bottom of the scale.
Thanks for the ariticle Jeff! Have a question, are there processors that can handle above 10-12 - 10-13 BER? Is there any advantage to being above BER 10-10?
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Old 11-30-2009, 09:48 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Interesting point, the NTIA set the following standard for the converter boxes:

"Equipment shall achieve a bit error rate (BER) in the transport stream of no worse than 3x10-6 for input RF signal levels directly to the tuner from -83 dBm to -5 dBm over the tuning range. Subjective video/audio assessment methodologies could be used to comply with the bit error rate requirement. Test conditions are for a single RF channel input with no noise or channel impairment. Refer to ATSC A/74 Section 4.1 for further guidance. (Note the upper limit specified here is different than that in A/74 4.1)."

"Subjective evaluation methodologies use the human visual and auditory systems as the primary measuring “instrument.” These methods may incorporate viewing active video and audio segments to evaluate the performance as perceived by a human observer. For subjective measurement, the use of an expert viewer is recommended. The viewer shall observe the video and listen to the audio for at least 20 seconds in order to determine Threshold of Visibility (TOV) and Threshold of Audibility (TOA). Subjective evaluation of TOV should correspond with achievement of transport stream error rate not greater than a BER of 3x10-6. If there is disagreement over TOV performance evaluation, it will be resolved with a measurement of actual BER."

See: http://www.ntia.doc.gov/dtvcoupon/dtvmanufacturers.pdf
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Old 11-30-2009, 04:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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FWIW, it would help if hdjeff were to use the proper exponential notation relating to BER calculations.

BER is properly denoted by scientific notation that consists of 1 x 10^-x where x is an integer that typically ranges from 1 to 12. A "good" BER is usually LESS that 1 x 10^-6. Keep in mind that the better the signal quality is, the greater is the ABSOLUTE VALUE of the exponent. That is, a BER of 1x10^-9 is 1,000 times better than 1x10^-6 which is 100 times better than 1x10^-4, etc.
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Old 12-04-2009, 03:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by HTNut View Post
Thanks for the ariticle Jeff! Have a question, are there processors that can handle above 10-12 - 10-13 BER? Is there any advantage to being above BER 10-10?
Your welcome, my pleasure.

It is currently not possible to achieve greater BER. It is in this higher range that the upper limits are determined. (Actually, after telling you that the digital cliff is a misnomer, there is a digital cliff and it is at the top of the performance spectrum.) Digital systems fail in the presence of too much signal. Here at the top end of the scale the picture will pixilate and lose signal altogether, similar to bottom end performance.

The only advantage to being above 10-10 is headroom so as to not fall below 10-10. Very few people would ever notice any difference in PQ or performance due to any normal fluctuations of signal while in this range.
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Old 12-04-2009, 04:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Jeff,

I understand that the error rate does vary over the spectrum. But, I've used pad attenuators to reduce my signal down to the dropout point. Signal quality, as measured by the converter box, does not change until I'm within 5 dB of the dropout point. My computer capture card starts having problems recording in this range but the picture on the tv still has the wow factor (no different than at full received signal). It doesn't start breaking up until 1 or 2 dB above the complete dropout point. I am using LG tuners which are known to be very good. Perhaps that is the difference?

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Old 12-07-2009, 01:17 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Quality, Quality, Quality !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by highdefjeff View Post
Bit Error Rate

The bit error rate of a digital system is the number of errors of bits in relation to time. The bit error rate (BER) is the digital expression of the signal quality or signal-to-noise ratio. BER is digital signal quality and it depends on SNR. (You may want to read "Signal Quality and the RF Front End" if you haven't.) http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-...front-end.html
Wow, very informative and possibly a little technical for a lot of the newbies, but that is powerful stuff. You made my point 1000 times over that Signal Quality is part of the battle, and that the consumer / viewer has no idea that all of this can effect their reception of a TV signal.

A lot of people are still stuck with an analog mindset regarding reception of digital TV signals in regards to antenna gain, and amplifiers etc., and they still think of brute force amplification as the cure to reception problems. I am not being critical of them, but only trying to reinforce the signal quality concept as also being considered when trying to advise users on a proper antenna installation for their area, especially if they have one or two problem channels when most of the others come in with no problem.

I have been amazed at just how critical antenna aiming is in relation to signal quality in general. Does everyone now need a bit stream analyzer to aim and place DTV antennas? There are now basically spectrum analyzers on a chip set that could be integrated into DTV receivers to help in aiming for highest quality signal and diagnosing in reception problems.

The biggest issue I have in my area is that I live to close to the transmitters to adequately test an antenna for fringe area reception characteristics, and virtually every antenna I build cannot be "receptionally" (I made up a new word here) challenged at my location. I have to drive about 75 miles to get in a weak signal area, and that is not actually practical for all of the antennas I have built with gas prices being what they are, even though I drive a company vehicle full time with them paying the freight on gas.

I can literally pick up most of the transmitters in this area at my house with a correctly sized piece of wire on the center conductor only and that does little to challenge a new antenna design that I may want to try, and I have many of them to test. Maybe I need to set aside a sort of field day, and load up all of my antennas and test gear and take that 75 mile drive to see if my antennas work as well in the fringe like I think they will.
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Old 12-07-2009, 06:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOX TV View Post
I have been amazed at just how critical antenna aiming is in relation to signal quality in general. Does everyone now need a bit stream analyzer to aim and place DTV antennas?
The Aussies, with their longer experience in OTA reception with their DVB-T have said that you shouldn't hire an antenna installer if he doesn't have a BER meter to aim an antenna. Horizon makes one for use in the UK and Australia, but it doesn't do 8VSB.
Bad reception areas to digital ? - DTV Forum Australia - Australia's Leading Digital TV and AV Forum post #11
Get The Best Reception - DTV Forum Australia - Australia's Leading Digital TV and AV Forum 366, 369

I too didn't fully appreciate the importance of signal quality for digital signals until one day I was aiming my 4-bay 4221 antenna at CH41.
I had orginally aimed the antenna with my Sadelco signal level meter for max signal and also had my Apex DT502 CECB connected with a splitter.

When I was testing the DT502 with my CM4221 antenna on my marginal signal (13.1 on RF41, since moved down to CH13), I got:
Signal Quality 60%
Signal Strength 55%

I had aimed the antenna with my SLM, but when I rotated the 4221 slightly to the right I got:
Signal Quality 100%
Signal Strength 56%
Note the BIG change in signal quality with only a slight change in signal strength.

It seems that the signal quality indication is a more sensitive aiming tool than signal strength, because it shows the increase in BER from multipath reflections. In my situation the BER is affected by the weak signal, the fixed multipath reflections, and the changing multipath reflections from traffic in front of the antenna (which shows the need for the new ATSC M/H standard).

With strong signals it is necessary to use an attenuator to reduce the signal to fully challenge the FEC with a weak signal, multipath problems, and ambient noise to be near the "cliff" where the signal quality indicator is most sensitive. Obviously, a spectrum analyzer would be a better tool to see the shape of the signal as affected by multipath, but it costs a lot more than a CECB.
Quote:
There are now basically spectrum analyzers on a chip set that could be integrated into DTV receivers to help in aiming for highest quality signal and diagnosing in reception problems.
That's a good idea since the tuner is already there, but the marketing department probably wouldn't go for it because of the extra expense.

The signal diagnostics screen of my Sony Bravia seems to give information that would help to optimize antenna aim:
www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17539658&postcount=10649

Quote:
The biggest issue I have in my area is that I live to close to the transmitters to adequately test an antenna for fringe area reception characteristics, and virtually every antenna I build cannot be "receptionally" (I made up a new word here) challenged at my location. I have to drive about 75 miles to get in a weak signal area, and that is not actually practical for all of the antennas I have built with gas prices being what they are, even though I drive a company vehicle full time with them paying the freight on gas.
A 75 ohm variable attenuator would be worth a try to challenge your antenna in a strong signal area to test the margin to dropout. That's what I use; see the link below.

"If you can not measure it, you can not improve it."
Lord Kelvin, 1883
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ttpoorman.html

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Old 12-08-2009, 07:22 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default More Signal Quality stuff !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
The Aussies, with their longer experience in OTA reception with their DVB-T have said that you shouldn't hire an antenna installer if he doesn't have a BER meter to aim an antenna. Horizon makes one for use in the UK and Australia, but it doesn't do 8VSB.
Bad reception areas to digital ? - DTV Forum Australia - Australia's Leading Digital TV and AV Forum post #11
Get The Best Reception - DTV Forum Australia - Australia's Leading Digital TV and AV Forum 366, 369

I too didn't fully appreciate the importance of signal quality for digital signals until one day I was aiming my 4-bay 4221 antenna at CH41.
I had orginally aimed the antenna with my Sadelco signal level meter for max signal and also had my Apex DT502 CECB connected with a splitter.

When I was testing the DT502 with my CM4221 antenna on my marginal signal (13.1 on RF41, since moved down to CH13), I got:
Signal Quality 60%
Signal Strength 55%

I had aimed the antenna with my SLM, but when I rotated the 4221 slightly to the right I got:
Signal Quality 100%
Signal Strength 56%
Note the BIG change in signal quality with only a slight change in signal strength.

It seems that the signal quality indication is a more sensitive aiming tool than signal strength, because it shows the increase in BER from multipath reflections. In my situation the BER is affected by the weak signal, the fixed multipath reflections, and the changing multipath reflections from traffic in front of the antenna (which shows the need for the new ATSC M/H standard).

With strong signals it is necessary to use an attenuator to reduce the signal to fully challenge the FEC with a weak signal, multipath problems, and ambient noise to be near the "cliff" where the signal quality indicator is most sensitive. Obviously, a spectrum analyzer would be a better tool to see the shape of the signal as affected by multipath, but it costs a lot more than a CECB.


That's a good idea since the tuner is already there, but the marketing department probably wouldn't go for it because of the extra expense.

The signal diagnostics screen of my Sony Bravia seems to give information that would help to optimize antenna aim:
www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17539658&postcount=10649


A 75 ohm variable attenuator would be worth a try to challenge your antenna in a strong signal area to test the margin to dropout. That's what I use; see the link below.

"If you can not measure it, you can not improve it."
Lord Kelvin, 1883
Selecting and Siting your TV aerial: Measuring Signal Quality - The Poor man's DTT meter
Thanks for the updated information, and for bolstering the signal quality is sometimes more important than signal strength theory. It is amazing that sometimes the best aiming of an antenna IS NOT ALWAYS in the direction of the strongest signal level, and to also to see the difference in the signal quality between different antennas looking at the same signal.

We use a variable attenuator at our transmitter sites because we take a forward power sample directly from the RF system, and if the RF is not attenuated, we would burn up an Agilent (Expensive) DTV power meter in a flash.

That would be a good way to judge the RF potential of my antennas in a low signal environment without burning a lot of gas finding a true fringe signal.

As for the built in spec analyzer idea, I am talking mainly about high end sets such as Sony and Samsung where a couple of hundred dollars more is not all that big a deal. When you say Sony, you are automatically saying expensive, so whats a few hundred dollars more among friends. BesideS that, Sony's economy probably needs stimulating too !!



Thanks for the suggestion !!

Last edited by FOX TV; 12-08-2009 at 07:45 AM.
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