First DTV Transition, now "All-IP" Transition for telephones
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First DTV Transition, now "All-IP" Transition for telephones


This is a discussion on First DTV Transition, now "All-IP" Transition for telephones within the DTV | HDTV Chat forums, part of the Over-the-Air (Antenna TV) category.

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  1. #1
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    First DTV Transition, now "All-IP" Transition for telephones

    Instead of connecting a converter box in homes, it looks like we're be connecting IP phones with routers.

    If you thought that the digital TV transition, with its billion-dollar coupon program for converter boxes, was a migration nightmare, wait until it's time for the phone system to dump its legacy circuit-switched system and move to an all-IP communications network. That day could be coming sooner than you think; the Federal Communications Commission has just requested comment on its planning for the transition.
    Telecom carriers increasingly run IP backbones and last-mile IP access to offer Internet service to home and business users. Cable and telcos like AT&T and Verizon have for years tried to move people in the direction of IP-delivered services, especially for phone service (when it comes to TV service, AT&T is the main IP-only player in the US), but huge sections of the country still rely on Plain Old Telephone Service (POTS) using circuit-switched services.
    Forget DTV; FCC now planning "all-IP" phone transition

  2. #2
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    Link to Government public notice on phone transition: http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...-09-2517A1.pdf

  3. #3
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    I've had phone over cable with Comcast for over a year now. Works pretty good.

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    Now this one I'd like to see get pushed through. It has to be a more coordinated effort than the digital transition with telephone service providers vs. broadcasters. Hope everyone has access to the internet before it happens.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeepJeep View Post
    I've had phone over cable with Comcast for over a year now. Works pretty good.
    Tell that to my next-door neighbor, who's been over here three times in the two years he's had Comcast's bundled VoIP service... to use my traditional landline to report having no dial tone at all... only to get a 20-minute argument every single time from an idiot "CSR" about routers and cables and whatnot. I've also seen some pretty outrageous fudges and shortcuts taken by that company's subs as they built out multiple systems, both analog and digital.

    Please don't think for a moment that I'm confusing the incumbent phone carriers with the local church choir; I don't believe for a moment that they're a whole heckuva lot better. I'm also glad that your service seems to be much more reliable than that. Still, Comcr@p has a long, long way to go before I'll ever trust them enough to provide me with uninterrupted, hereof-fail-not access to 911.

  6. #6
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    You gotta be kidding me. There's no way. What about homes in rural areas that have never been equipped with cable service or something like FiOS? This is going to cost a fortune. If it does go through, wonder what they'll do with all those old phone lines.

  7. #7
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    I don't think they're talking about the last mile here, I think they're talking about the other stuff.

    Because to replace the last mile implies running fiber to the home to every home in the US, which I sincerely doubt is happening, even if it would be a dream come true for people like me.

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    Ok, I skimmed things and could be wrong, but it sure looks to me like they are talking about the entire network, including the last mile.

    I have yet to see IP switched telephony to be robust as POTS.

    For one thing and maybe one of the main problems is the telecommunications companies have no incentive to build it robust, only as fast (for sales) and cheap as possible.

    While POTS in most states falls under that state's Public Service Commission to ensure reliable service. Most forget the early days of POTS when there was no regulation and hence the robustness was left to the owners or investors. Just like there was a reason for the banking industry to be regulated then stripped away leading to the current economic situation, there was a reason POTS was regulated. Yes the telcos control the PSC in most states to get what they want. They poor mouth every time they can for a rate increase. But believe you me let your POTS go out vs your DSL go out and see which is fixed first. In Florida they have 24 hours to either fix your POTS service or file with the PSC why they can't. Massive acts of nature preclude them from this paper work, such as when a hurricane hits, but even then in days after, when electrical power returns, they are again under the gun to get POTS working.

    I even talked to the local service guy, living in a small town we have one for the local telco. I talked to him about a month after the hurricanes of 2004. He said he worked night and day to repair POTs. Those that were lucky enough to get their internet back, so be it and good. Those that didn't too bad. There was one woman that would not stop calling the company requesting her DSL be fixed now including complaining to the state (though it fell on deaf ears since broadband is not regulated). He had to go to her house and tell her too bad, he still had POTS out in the area and had to fix it first.

    Then.....................

    He chuckled and said, "See we don't have to fix DSL under any time table, so people have to accept that just wait till we get it done when we have time".

    Now in his defense so you don't get the wrong idea, he is a very competent worker and technician. And considering the shear size of our NXX (area code plus prefix) and he is the only repair person for our NXX that is not only large by divided by a river you can only cross at the far end of his territory (actually you cross into the competors area to go over that bridge). So his wires to the other side of the river are only 5 miles at the longest, with most 2 miles, he has to drive 35 miles from the main block house to that part of his territory. So he is stretched thin.

    Still you get the concept of what is important and why. POTS is regulated.

    In Florida if your IP based phone goes down, you have signed an agreement that indemnifies the IP carrier from any damages caused by an outage, specifically in the language 911.
    The more I understand, the less I know.

    PORK... The Other White Meat....

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    It Works pretty good

    Quote Originally Posted by jeepjeep View Post
    i've had phone over cable with comcast for over a year now. Works pretty good.
    until the power goes out !!
    WE ARE NOT SHEEPLE !!

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    Give me copper !!

    Quote Originally Posted by Piggie View Post

    In Florida if your IP based phone goes down, you have signed an agreement that indemnifies the IP carrier from any damages caused by an outage, specifically in the language 911.
    I will bet the Telco got to write their own policy on this one !!
    WE ARE NOT SHEEPLE !!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeepJeep View Post
    I've had phone over cable with Comcast for over a year now. Works pretty good.
    Quote Originally Posted by FOX TV View Post
    until the power goes out !!
    lol, true. Maybe with the phone transition, they'll give out coupons for cell phones, that way if the power goes out, consumers will have a way to contact authorities or emergency services.....until their cell phone battery runs out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HTNut View Post
    lol, true. Maybe with the phone transition, they'll give out coupons for cell phones, that way if the power goes out, consumers will have a way to contact authorities or emergency services.....until their cell phone battery runs out.
    hehe, better yet they could give out discount coupons for backup generators for each house.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don_M View Post
    Tell that to my next-door neighbor, who's been over here three times in the two years he's had Comcast's bundled VoIP service... to use my traditional landline to report having no dial tone at all... only to get a 20-minute argument every single time from an idiot "CSR" about routers and cables and whatnot. I've also seen some pretty outrageous fudges and shortcuts taken by that company's subs as they built out multiple systems, both analog and digital.

    Please don't think for a moment that I'm confusing the incumbent phone carriers with the local church choir; I don't believe for a moment that they're a whole heckuva lot better. I'm also glad that your service seems to be much more reliable than that. Still, Comcr@p has a long, long way to go before I'll ever trust them enough to provide me with uninterrupted, hereof-fail-not access to 911.
    Yeah I've actually had a pretty good experience with it. Only the occasional lag but I haven't lost a call yet and we've tested it pretty well by streaming music and other web oriented things while talking on the phone.

    Quote Originally Posted by FOX TV View Post
    until the power goes out !!
    I'd have a problem anyway since all of my phones before I switched to IP were remote and powered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeepJeep View Post
    Yeah I've actually had a pretty good experience with it. Only the occasional lag but I haven't lost a call yet and we've tested it pretty well by streaming music and other web oriented things while talking on the phone.
    Exactly what I experienced when I was with Vonage. Lag, with every other phone call or so.

  15. #15
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    I know that some homes have copper from the point of entrance into the home for their IP service. If the power goes out, do they lose service too?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron62 View Post
    Exactly what I experienced when I was with Vonage. Lag, with every other phone call or so.
    Doesn't happen that often with me. Once out of maybe 4-5 phone calls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FOX TV View Post
    I will bet the Telco got to write their own policy on this one !!
    Well there was a battle in Florida. I didn't follow in detail so there is some chance my details are wrong.

    Several years ago they were not going to allow any IP based phones sold after a certain date because none of them at that time had any 911 service.

    Of course this went over like a Lead Zeppelin, without a "Whole Lotta Love".

    So a compromise was reached that if they put in their agreement that it would not work for emergency phone calls they could sell them.

    That is pretty much the state of such devices still today in Florida.

    =======

    Now that said. I know people in town that have an IP based phone and pretty happy with it nearly all of the time. But those that say they are happy also say they have a cell phone and very strong service. The chance of both of them going down at once is probably even less than a POTS line going down.

    Those in rural areas like myself have to have a POTS line, period. I even tried with omni at various heights up to 20 ft (10 to 12 worked the best not to hear other cells). I tried a yagi that totally stunk and the omni out performed it. Probably something like a panel antenna or a small dish or corner reflector would probably be the ticket toward a given cell site, but I stopped at not building such an antenna. I tried running a legal amp I bought from Alltel (before selling to Verizon) and it helped but not all the time.

    I finally decided that POTS was worth the money.

    Then the femtocells came along but only Sprint had them. Sprint has the worst coverage in rural areas in most places including where I live, so even though that would have solved the problem in my house, it would not solve it around town, where only Verizon has any signal (weak) at all.

    Verizon was going to put up a limited cell site in our town but backed out. One is the county signed an agreement with them after they said they would not be putting up the site. They knew they would win anyway as they have the best rural coverage anyway. The tower company they were to lease from even erected the tower, but it just sits in our peanut field with nothing but a light on top.

    Maybe one day. In the mean time I will pay for a POTS line for as long as I can get one. (unless Verizon comes out with a femtocell device).
    The more I understand, the less I know.

    PORK... The Other White Meat....

  18. #18
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    Cell Phones will be the real backup plan. However there still isnt full coverage in the US.

    In South Africa, they gave up building more land lines a long time ago. Them and most of Africa went straight to Cell Tech. Much cheaper to implement and fast.

    In fact Africans were way ahead of North Americans in Cell Phone ownership and usage for a good long while, maybe even still...with legacy users (old timers).

    My first visit there in 1998, cell phones were very widespread. Most did not have a land line, never had a land line, or dropped the land line already.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piggie View Post
    Well there was a battle in Florida. I didn't follow in detail so there is some chance my details are wrong.

    Several years ago they were not going to allow any IP based phones sold after a certain date because none of them at that time had any 911 service.

    Of course this went over like a Lead Zeppelin, without a "Whole Lotta Love".

    So a compromise was reached that if they put in their agreement that it would not work for emergency phone calls they could sell them.

    That is pretty much the state of such devices still today in Florida.

    =======

    Now that said. I know people in town that have an IP based phone and pretty happy with it nearly all of the time. But those that say they are happy also say they have a cell phone and very strong service. The chance of both of them going down at once is probably even less than a POTS line going down.

    Those in rural areas like myself have to have a POTS line, period. I even tried with omni at various heights up to 20 ft (10 to 12 worked the best not to hear other cells). I tried a yagi that totally stunk and the omni out performed it. Probably something like a panel antenna or a small dish or corner reflector would probably be the ticket toward a given cell site, but I stopped at not building such an antenna. I tried running a legal amp I bought from Alltel (before selling to Verizon) and it helped but not all the time.

    I finally decided that POTS was worth the money.

    Then the femtocells came along but only Sprint had them. Sprint has the worst coverage in rural areas in most places including where I live, so even though that would have solved the problem in my house, it would not solve it around town, where only Verizon has any signal (weak) at all.

    Verizon was going to put up a limited cell site in our town but backed out. One is the county signed an agreement with them after they said they would not be putting up the site. They knew they would win anyway as they have the best rural coverage anyway. The tower company they were to lease from even erected the tower, but it just sits in our peanut field with nothing but a light on top.

    Maybe one day. In the mean time I will pay for a POTS line for as long as I can get one. (unless Verizon comes out with a femtocell device).
    Update: Wrong again, seems to be a trend with me lately. Don't believe anything I post. I found Verizon does have a femtocell for $250. Not sure if I have to renew a contract, but on the web site they don't mention it.

    So if you see me post something, double check sources, I am probably wrong.
    The more I understand, the less I know.

    PORK... The Other White Meat....

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piggie View Post
    Update: Wrong again, seems to be a trend with me lately. Don't believe anything I post. I found Verizon does have a femtocell for $250. Not sure if I have to renew a contract, but on the web site they don't mention it.

    So if you see me post something, double check sources, I am probably wrong.
    It happens to the best of us time to time.

 
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