Corolla NC to Norfolk VA

Hi All,

I find the antenna discussions most valuable here. My situation is, that I am in Corolla NC about 50 mi LOS 310 deg (by TV Fool) from Norfok VA.

I would like to select some antenna which lets me shoot the main farm up there. Best for me, would be something in the attic, BC we have some hurricane force winds here from time to time.

So if it was inside, at least I would not worry too much as long as the house itself was still standing But is is possible, that can I install and remove an outside antenna should it be threatened.

I have a +30 foot off the ground location in the attic. I was looking at the winegard 7694 w/65" boom which I realize is marginal distance-wise, but longer is tough to fit in the attic and get the right orientation.

Or should I go with something bigger outside, and just demount when storms come. If in this case, what would you recommend?

I have tried to attach the TV Fool report.



Thanks,
jim

Hi jarhodes! Welcome to the forum.

Can you give us the TV Fool link from your results? The image is a bit hard to see. Thanks!

jarhodes,

Originally Posted by jarhodes

... Or should I go with something bigger outside, and just demount when storms come. If in this case, what would you recommend? Thanks, jim

Jim,

Please copy the resulting URL from your TVFOOL report and post it here. I'm having the same issue N2RJ is, being unable to read the small image.

One option for an outside antenna is to mount it on a telescopic mast which can be lowered in less than a minute, if the weather gets wild. They are available in 20, 30, 40 and 50 foot lengths and resemble overgrown automobile antennas. I use three of them at my home.

Jim

Sorry guys, here it is:

TV Fool

thanks,
jim

jarhodes,

Since you want an attic installation (if possible) I suggest using an old-style (American made) Channel Master CM-4228 because it also works for some VHF channels including RF channels 9 and somewhat for 7. They are getting hard to find but ironically, I listed one for sale on my local Craigslist yesterday.

I don't expect you to want me to ship it to you, but please look at my ad to see what that antenna "promises" so when you find one locally, you will know to jump on it. Channel Master 4228 antenna for FREE TV reception That's my in-attic antenna recommendation.

Jim

Your TV Fool looks good, and Jim's suggestion is a good one. There should be a lot of other antennas that would work. Depending on room in your attic, and the materials your house and roof are made out of, a Winegard HD 7694P or one of it's bigger brothers pointed at 321 degrees magnetic should work great.

Thanks All,

I think I'm gonna go with either the WD 7694 or a similar CM 2016. Try it outside first off the deck, if OK, then into the attic. The situation is, is that it is a small beach house on stilts from the early 80's, now surrounded by the equivalent of beach house McMansions. My cousin in Norfolk and I own the house, but we don't rent it out and its used only sporadically in the summer by related family members at zero cost to them. So he and I call the shots on what is installed there (and pay the bills) even though some family "visitors" complain "no cable"; we never could justify the carrying cost. Before the swapover to digital, we got like two Norfolk stations. Since 2009, I took a converter box down there and was getting the first 6 or so from the TV Fool report with rabbit ears and a VHF loop. So I got a cheap flatpanel w/digital tuner and tossed the old CRT (did I mention this is a shoestring operation. Now certain "family members" have "elevated" expectations (without the corresponding $ or any FTM), so I am looking to get at least to FOX which is listed at +16dB or so.

For me, I'm already at the beach when I'm there so it is not so important as it hasn't been for 30+years, but you know the "kids". Thank the Lord they have smartphones or I'd be looking at the Comcast just for the internet. Although I have heard related complaints for instance that Sprint network is "weak". In this case I offer my condolences A week or two "offline" is not such a bad thing IMHO. Esp. since it is zero cost to be at the beach. Whatever.

I'll let you know how it works out and which antenna, probably late August.

Thanks for all your help.

jim

Originally Posted by Fringe Reception

jarhodes,

Since you want an attic installation (if possible) I suggest using an old-style (American made) Channel Master CM-4228 because it also works for some VHF channels including RF channels 9 and somewhat for 7. They are getting hard to find but ironically, I listed one for sale on my local Craigslist yesterday.

I don't expect you to want me to ship it to you, but please look at my ad to see what that antenna "promises" so when you find one locally, you will know to jump on it. Channel Master 4228 antenna for FREE TV reception That's my in-attic antenna recommendation.

Jim

Actually, the new channel master 4228HD has VHF reception as well (high VHF) and they claim to have improved high VHF.

Some (most?) of the gurus over on that Canadian site are seriously down on the 4228HD. "Twice the price, half the bang for the buck" words to that effect. Channelmaster's site lists "average UHF gain" for the 4228HD as 11.4 dB, and "average UHF gain" for the 4221HD as 11.5 dB. In addition, the 4228HD is much more directional than a 4221HD, which might be a plus in some situations, but more often is viewed as a minus. I've also read the 4228HD is murder on rotors.

OTOH, the 4228HD definitely has some high VHF where the 4221HD is lacking. And the 4228HD can be improved quite a bit with a DIY harness.

Honest question: Rather than go with a 4228HD, would it be more cost efficient to add a regular VHF antenna to a 4221HD?

Rick

Originally Posted by Rickideemus

Some (most?) of the gurus over on that Canadian site are seriously down on the 4228HD. "Twice the price, half the bang for the buck" words to that effect. Channelmaster's site lists "average UHF gain" for the 4228HD as 11.4 dB, and "average UHF gain" for the 4221HD as 11.5 dB.

Well the addition of high VHF was probably at the expense of UHF gain. Peak gain is probably lower in the UHF band. Remember if they are figuring average gain over 14-69 that isn't the same as average gain over 14-51. At this point in history gain on channel 52 to 69 isn't even relevant. At least not in the US.

I have an Antennacraft U-8000 (8-Bay) in my closet, which I've never had any luck with in my situation. In the right situation (weak stations coming from one direction) it might be the antenna of choice, but my homebuilt Gray-Hovermans have always out performed it in my situation.

Originally Posted by Rickideemus

... I've also read the 4228HD is murder on rotors.

Rick

The CM-4228HD is lightweight and has less wind drag compared to an original style CM-4228. That one is definately a (modern) rotor-killer but an old Alliance U-100 can handle them.

Jim

Originally Posted by dkreichen1968

Remember if they are figuring average gain over 14-69 that isn't the same as average gain over 14-51. At this point in history gain on channel 52 to 69 isn't even relevant. At least not in the US.

Good point. Here are some numbers (gain is in dBd) that came from Channel Master:

ChannelMasterChart.jpg

Doesn't seem to matter a whole bunch where you set the boundaries. For example, if you just average UHF channels 14, 19, 27, 35 and 43, you get 11.22 dB for the 4221HD and 11.3 dB for the 4228HD. Not much difference. One guy stated if you ganged together two 4221HD's you would get an increase of 2.5 dB. I don't know if that's true. Either way, I guess my question stands.

Rick

The main problem withthe 4228HD is the yoke, it kills the good signal that the two 4221's combined produce. Read HDTV Primer and the review there of the 4228HD and how CM screwed up the yoke and the balun.

Jim,

Can you retry and offer a specific link to the 42228HD review? There's lots of great info on your provided link but it is not specific, per the text you wrote in your post. I'd like to read about the yoke and balun issues.

Thanks in advance,

Jim

I'm pretty sure Jim is referring to this page:
Temporary page

I had read that, but of course I don't know enough theory to pass on it (come to think of it, I don't know any theory ) so that's why I asked about it here. There are similar comments at Digital Home sort of splattered all over the place. It's hard to search that site.

Another page you might find interesting:
DB-8 from AntennasDirect where they say:

All the 8-bay makers seem to be copying each other’s mistakes. The DB-8 has some of the same harness errors as the 4228HD. Replacing the harness with two baluns and a combiner would make it the same as the old DB-8. But the DB-8 is not fixable. The DB-8 dipole elements are only 6.2 inches long, compared to 8.0 inches for the 4228. This biases the DB-8 toward the higher channels. The DB-8 was always a bit weak below channel 40. Now that channels above 51 are gone, it is no longer a reasonable antenna, even with the harness fixed. Some day AntennasDirect will figure out that they have to rescale this antenna.

Thing that occurs to me is that if all the 8 bay makers are making the same mistakes, maybe there's some reason behind it. Hey, maybe Time Warner Cable has infitrated all their engineering departments! Heh, heh ...

Rick

Maybe someone could look at this and see if they fixed the balun and harness issues:
3 Star 4228 8-Bay Multi-Bow HDTV UHF Antenna

They talk a good game, and they've been accredited by the BBB for 4 years with no complaints, much better than that GREEN company of recent renown (not accredited). From the gain figures quoted: 17 - 23 dB, maybe they did fix it. There's no amplifier to screw up the calculation, and I'm assuming these numbers are in dBi. OTOH, maybe I'm the sucker that was born that given minute, on a cold October morning.

It looks the same as an antenna made by Digiwave, which reputedly has substandard connectors. But that doesn't really nail it to the ground. All three companies, 3 Star inc., Digiwave and Channel Master have their antennas manufactured by the same Chinese firm. And there's nothing wrong with taking a CM design and improving it -- there's no patent on the bow tie design, and there's no trademark on a number, such as "4228."

Rick

Originally Posted by Rickideemus

Maybe someone could look at this and see if they fixed the balun and harness issues:
3 Star 4228 8-Bay Multi-Bow HDTV UHF Antenna
Rick

Rick,

We had a discussion about that antenna here on the Forum two and a half years ago, here:
DigiWave Hinged 8 Bay Bowtie

Jim

Thank you for directing me to that thread. Very interesting! I did a little research, and I'm about 99+% sure Digiwave (now "Homevision") is not the same company as 3 Star inc. Digiwave is in Canada, 3 Star in the US, since before this antenna made its debut.

The two antennas may be identical, or they might just LOOK indentical, with different parts and materials. The dimensions they quote are slightly different, and the gains are miles apart. Digiwave claims 20. - 36. dB, which is pretty hard to swallow.

3 Star even mentions this antenna isn't best for VHF reception, which increases their credibility, IMHO.

R.