Piggie

Plenty of room for subchannels if you are willing to live with 720p and less definition.

Tim58hsv

It's an analog tv with a digital tuner but I usually use a CECB because its tuner picks up more channels than the tv's tuner will. Using just the tv tuner will get a much better picture than CECB (it's an Insignia model) will deliver but like I said before, it's quantity over quality for me, as long as the quantity has good quality. And it does.

The other broadcast markets we receive are from Richmond, Indianas WKOI 43 (+4 subs) (not sure if that's considered a Dayton or Cincinnati market). We also get the Cincinnati market with channels WSTR 64, WLWT 5 (+1 sub), WKRC 12 (+1 sub), WPTO 14 (+4 subs), WCET 48 (+1 sub), WCPO 9 (+1 sub), and WXIX 19 (+1 sub). And from the Columbus market we get WWHO 53.

Tim58hsv

I'm on webtv and using a standard def tv as a monitor so that's why I see no artifacts in the picture. I'm taking your word that they are there but I can't see them, as no doubt others do.

I do know that a poor signal can cause digital tv to perform poorly and cause such things to happen so I'm posting a pic from the exact same channel (which I recorded just now) with the signal meter on, showing it to be a strong signal.

So how 'bout it. Are there any artifacts on this pic? If there is I can't see them either...

Piggie

WKOI in part of Dayton. That is nice to be able to receive two DMAs.

Probably the reason you don't notice the limited bandwidth on channels with all the subs is because you have a tube TV. They tend to integrate pixels. Integrate can be a fancy world for blur. Just like a tube TV can persist with one field then scan the next, yet our eyes see a whole frame of video, even though the screen has been scanned twice. LCD TV can't do that. When viewing NTSC on a LCD, it has to store both fields of 480i or 1080i for that matter, then add them together in hardware and software to create a single frame.

So yes, the bandwidth starved subchannels look a lot better on a tube TV than LCD or Plasma. The shame of it is, with the cheap price of memory and processing power, it's too bad most LCD TVs don't use electronic integration to simulate a tube TV when the resolution goes below a level, like they mix fields to make frames.

O-O

I choose both HD and content!

EscapeVelocity

I think this poll is skewed another way.

I have

ABC
CW 480i sub

NBC
same feed (not offset) 480i sub

CBS
black screen with logo 480i sub

Fox
had a same feed 480i sub for a while then dropped it

MyTV

PBS HD
Create 480i sub
PBS Kids/World 480i sub

PBS HD
Create 480i sub
PBS Kids/World 480i sub



Somebody in Chicago with 75 channels may want more Quality.....I want more Content. If I was in Chicago DMA, I may prefer more Quality and less Quantity.

And there you have it.

NYCLA*

1 x 1080i or 720p HDTV (19 Mbit/s) No additional subchannels, unless HD is transmitted at 15Mbit/s or less.
1 x 1080i or 720p HDTV (15 Mbit/s) + 1 480p or 480i SD subchannel (~3.8 Mbit/s)
1 x 1080i or 720p HDTV (11 Mbit/s) + 1 720p HDTV (8 Mbit/s) subchannel
1 x 1080i or 720p HDTV (11 Mbit/s) + 2 480p or 480i SD subchannels (~3.8 Mbit/s each)
1 x 720p HDTV channel (8 Mbit/s) + 3 480p or 480i SD subchannels (~3.8 Mbit/s each)
2 x 720p HDTV channels (9.6 Mbit/s each) No SD subchannels
2 x 720p HDTV channels (7.8 Mbit/s each) + 1 480p or 480i SD subchannel (~3.8 Mbit/s)
No HDTV channels + 2 480p or 480i SD subchannels (~6 Mbit/s each)
No HDTV channels + 3 480p or 480i SD subchannels (~6 Mbit/s each)
No HDTV channels + 4 480p or 480i SD subchannels (~4.2 Mbit/s each)
No HDTV channels + 5 480p or 480i SD subchannels (~3.8 Mbit/s each)
No HDTV channels + 6 480p or 480i SD subchannels (~3.1 Mbit/s each)
No HDTV channels + 7 480p or 480i SD subchannels (~2.7 Mbit/s each)
No HDTV channels + 120 mono radio subchannels (~0.2 Mbit/s each)

Don_M

This is similar to what KUSA, our NBC affiliate, is trying to do. The numbers, courtesy Rabbit Ears:

• 9.1 NBC: 1080 i, 12.1 MBPS
• 9.2 Weather: 480i, 2.3 MBPS
• 9.3 NBC Uni Sports: 480i, 3.25 MBPS

Whole thing earns an epic FAIL, AFAIC. Prime-time fare starts microblocking as soon as the action gets any faster than, say, Conan's and Jimmy's talk shows!

As for the subchannels: They use AccuWeather now, which is a heckuva lot better than Weather Plus was, and there are few artifacts on LCD because it's mostly a static screen. OTOH, the sports channel, which they added this spring, is a total waste of bandwidth. It's a constant mess of blocking and artifacts such that you can barely tell there's a human being in the pool, let alone that it's Jason Lezak out-touching Alain Bernard to win the 4x100 relay race, as they did so clearly in HD during the Olympics last year.

So it's no surprise that live HD sports broadcasts faster than golf are a mess. In 2008, there was no macroblocking evident on Sunday Night Football, save those occasions when bright red was prominent in the video (pity the KC Chiefs -- the uniforms weren't made for the HD era!). During the Hall of Fame Game three weeks ago, macroblocking occurred on every single play. You know they have a real problem when this is painfully obvious on a 26-inch set! As you might imagine, friends of mine on the local reception thread who have big-screen HDTVs have been screaming long and loud about this.

All of which is why I, too, wished there were more choices in the poll: I want no subs at all on affiliates of the Big Five Networks, but plenty of 'em on the other channels.

spokybob

I want quality on OTA. When I want more channels, I watch DISH.

Piggie

Actually another post of yours was why started this thread as many out there actually believe it's possible with current technology. It ain't dat way!