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Old 09-21-2009, 07:02 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Going Back to the Beginning of HDTV

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Going Back to the Beginning of HDTV

by Randy Hoffner, 09.08.2009

Think HDTV began with the adoption of the ATSC standard in 1994? With the development of Hi-Vision in the late 1970s? Nope, and nope. Read on.
Fascinating.

I knew about Hi Vision and NHK in Japan....but this ancient history, naught.

Thought others might enjoy.
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Old 09-22-2009, 06:20 AM   #2 (permalink)
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From that article,

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The HDTV line rates of 1080 and 720 were not revolutionarily high. A German company developed a full television system that used over 1000 lines during World War II, and the French, who had a functioning transmission system that broadcast 1000 lines at about this same time, instituted regular broadcasting using an 819 line system after World War II.


It took the US way too long to get HDTV considering how technologically advanced we are. Same with mobile dtv.
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Old 09-23-2009, 05:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by HTNut View Post
From that article,





It took the US way too long to get HDTV considering how technologically advanced we are. Same with mobile dtv.
When the FCC gets involved, you can be sure it'll take a while for something to get done.
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Old 09-23-2009, 06:40 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post
via TV Technology.com



Fascinating.

I knew about Hi Vision and NHK in Japan....but this ancient history, naught.

Thought others might enjoy.
Very interesting. The technology was there for HD, but costs to produce the TVs were probably a factor in pushing resolution down over the years. Well, that, and as the article points out, analog high-line-rate systems require lots of bandwidth.
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:24 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Very interesting. The technology was there for HD, but costs to produce the TVs were probably a factor in pushing resolution down over the years. Well, that, and as the article points out, analog high-line-rate systems require lots of bandwidth.
from the article

In wartime Germany, the Fernseh AG television company demonstrated a 1029-line system that they promoted as a medium for transmitting maps for military purposes. This analog system had the disadvantage that it required 15 MHz of RF bandwidth.

So basically low VHF could only have 2 channels Hi-VHF 3 and the post June 12th UHF TV band could only have 15 channels. So yes that would be very inefficient.
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Old 09-23-2009, 09:06 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Costs prohibits much. Our technology in many areas is pretty advanced, but it making it practical to actually utilize is a totally different thing. Sadly, money rules most of the time.
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Old 09-24-2009, 12:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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From that article,





It took the US way too long to get HDTV considering how technologically advanced we are. Same with mobile dtv.
Eggs Xactly!

Not sure I spouted here as much as at AVS, but HDTV using the ATSC standard is NOT High Tech. It's not Cutting Edge. It's not even a Johny come lately but a Johny why did you take so long to come home story.

If you just take the time period from 1996 to 2009, the TV stations mostly converted in the first 5 to 7 years. Then we have this period from about 2003 to 2008 where we have a vast majority of stations transmitting digital, yet maybe 5% and probably not that much of the country even knew about it. Economically it was insane. Many stations running 1000KW stations for 5 years with much less than a percent of the population watching OTA digital.

It was kept so low key that even people that had ever other latest and greatest gadget didn't even know about OTA digital.

Why did that happen?
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Old 09-24-2009, 12:11 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by O-O View Post
When the FCC gets involved, you can be sure it'll take a while for something to get done.
I don't see how we can blame the FCC for a slow transition period. I can quote you a book on what I think they did wrong during the transition. Delaying to me wasn't one of the problems they caused. They did take forever to mandate the beginning of the change in 1996, and then kept delaying analog shut off.

But to me that was not them, but they were lobbied to cause all the delaying except the last delay, which is still a mystery, and even it can be linked to lobbyists.

The FCC was there in full force maybe more so as a power enforcement division in the 1940-1960 era and the adding of UHF channels when very smooth.

I know what it was in my mind. It was a the change from just doing the right things that were morally correct and good for the whole country compared to now where everything is 100% market driven or forced by the government.
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Old 09-24-2009, 12:56 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Very interesting. The technology was there for HD, but ......... analog high-line-rate systems require lots of bandwidth.
Bingo! Cost was not an issue, it was bandwidth. In 1948 the US had run out of allocations for most VHF channels. There was a freeze put on new stations that lasted until 1952 (I may be a few years off on dates, so correct me and save me the googling).

The die was cast by that point. 6MHz wide channels were needed for 480i analog transmissions.

One thing I find repeatedly and is still common is people under the age of even 40 almost now don't realize RF Spectrum is LIMITED!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is ONLY so MUCH!! You can't add and add and add services to RF services without either displacing a previous service or sacrificing quality.

In my opinion having worked on digital television since 1978, the electronics were not ready for broadcast until the early 1990's. It wasn't until the mid 80's programmable chips were cheap and available. Micron level geometry on a chip surface wasn't available commercially yet and what we had was expensive.

Sure I was doing digital TV in the 70's but with TTL chips that pulled massive amounts of power. The memory to store just 2 fields of NTSC was the size of 5 modern full size computer cases crammed full of memory chips. I have forgotten but they were either 256 or 512 byte chips. They were 8 bits wide. Each card held 120 of them and there were 32 cards in the machine. It held 1/30 of a second of TV. But that was enough for us to manipulate the video. The box sold for 1/4 million dollars and required a 50 amp service at 120 VAC. It took a full 6 foot rack to mount all the equipment.

I then worked for another company that compacted the size of it in 1985 with the latest chips. It was 1/6 the size all fitting in about 8 rack units or about 30 inches tall. It would run on a 20 amp service. Still that box was $100,000. That was state of the art, we had no competition.

Basically it wasn't until MPEG2 and micron level integrated circuits came along that a home TV could even be considered.

====

PAL or Phased Alternate Lines was adopted in most of Europe that was both wider and taller than our standard. It took an 8 MHz channel. There was little VHF done in Europe and most of them moved to UHF by the 1970s where 8 MHz channels were much easier to expand. They also have smaller countries so UHF was well suited, without vast expanses of rural areas.

But this sure left them much better suited for the digital transition than North America. Mainly for 2 reasons even if you forget DVB is better than ATSC.

1) Everything was already UHF

2) Converting analog PAL channels to DVB channels they had 8 MHz bandwidth. This alone gave them 33 percent more room to run subchannels.

But yet back on topic it can be looked at in another way that even with 576i standard of PAL, it ate up 8 MHz of bandwidth. Still limiting the number of channels available to a country even with one network each (most common back then in Europe). Still to cover the countries they needed more than one channel. The wider channels in Europe also helped convince them to move to UHF where there was more room. So it was a curse at first that later turned into a blessing, at least for their geography.
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