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Old 10-17-2009, 02:06 PM   #31 (permalink)
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So is the 1.1 db. increase on channel 9 that significant on the HD-7697P? 12db vs 10.9 for the HD-7696P.
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Old 10-17-2009, 02:36 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I would just go with the smallest of the bunch. The amplifier will give you 3-5 dB decrease in noise floor which is esentially a boost in antenna gain. Plus it defeats any losses in the splitters and coax.

But that is me. A 60 inch boom is plenty for Green and Yellow, outdoors on the roof.
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Old 10-17-2009, 02:40 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Is it a huge difference? No. It's significant enough to be noticeable, though.
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Old 10-18-2009, 05:16 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Bobross, I don't mean to hijack your thread but my tvfool is nearly identical to yours, so I hope it's okay to add this post. Also, apologies for its length, but believe it or not I did try to be concise.

We must be w/in a mile of each other (I'm 5 miles out CP Road, street address lat = 47.113603, long = -122.927336).

My OTA obstacles (and probably yours) are a combination of distance and distribution of transmitters (up to 53 miles and roughly 49 degrees of separation), the fact that we have 3 upper vhf channels, 2 of which are 2-edge multipath, - and what you can't tell from tvfool or antennaweb: trees, and I'm told, temperature fluctuations over Puget Sound. As I understand it, these latter two are multipath factors not accounted for in tvfool and antennaweb projections.

The prevailing wisdom seems to be problem solved with a 91xg, YA-1713, CM7777 amp, and rotator. I have no reason to doubt it but the rotator is a deal-killer for me with multiple tv's and kids since all tv's are limited to the channels on any particular aim. That might not be a problem for you, in which case, this might work well for you. My impression though, is that you are trying to keep it "simple" too?

Initially, I did not want the apparent added complexity of an amp either but have found it necessary and simple enough to set up. To make a long story short, my experience thus far confirms your concern about picking up vhf channel 9 (and 11). In addition, RF channels 38, 39, and 48 (virtual 4, 7, and 5) are highly variable depending on antenna aim and weather. My new Terrestrial Digital 42xg and CM7777 (without a 7-13 antenna) will not get 9 and 11, and conditions and aim have to be just right to get 4,5 and 7 at the same time (and these vary so one aim isn't working).

Without a rotator, the trick is to find an antenna that adequately splits the difference between gain needed to fight off the multipath and beamwidth needed to capture signals from almost 50 degrees of separation. I don't know if such an antenna exists. Here's where we might both benefit from some additional insight from EV, IDRick, Don_M, and others.

Do you-all feel that a store-bought 4 or 8 bay will handle our multipath and beamwidth issues? Alternatively, which DIY GH do you think has the greatest potential for these circumstances? (it's my understanding at least some versions achieve higher gains than commercially available)?

Looking at Winegard's 769 spec sheets: does "beamwidth at half power points" at least loosely correspond to degrees of separation between transmitters? In choosing between the 769 models, how does one make a reasonable guess whether to err towards more gain / less beamwidth or less gain / more beamwidth? Even if you have to oversimplify a bunch, can you explain a little about how laymen might interpret polar patterns and channel by channel beamwidth figures?
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Old 10-18-2009, 07:57 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I continue to think that the G1483 is a good antenna for Seattle. You may need help on VHF though, especially Ch. 9.

Ive attempted to contact Jim in Seattle as he knows the area well, and antennas. He has been making cut to channel homemade yagis for the area.

His prescription seems to be a 10 element VHF High Band Only...Winegard and AntennaCraft both offer one, plus he likes the old style American made Channel Master CM 4221 4 Bay or the old style American made CM 4228.

Ive talked to him about the Tune-A-Tenna, as the old Channel Masters are harder and harder to come by.

Its possible that the Tune-A-Tenna is a one antenna solution....especially if you change out the reflector for a slightly wider 32 to 36" screen.
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Old 10-18-2009, 08:03 PM   #36 (permalink)
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This is a discussion I had earlier with Jim...

Quote:
In my area, the best (actually the most simple) setup for most of the installations I have done is usually a screen antenna for UHF and a "cut-to-9" Yagi, to capture VHF 9, 11 and 13.

I built my own "cut-to-9" Yagi/coax balun and the 21.5 kilowatt Channel 9, is now viable here: the 12.5 kw 11 still evades me. Hopefully both 9 and especially 11 will be allowed to increase their output power, but they are in a p-ing match with the Canadian Government.

I have not finalized my installation because neither my NBC or ABC affiliate stations (under a mile from me) have raised their temporary antennas to the top of their towers - that will happen next Spring. Also, some VHF channels are requesting permission to return to their "temporary" UHF channel, abandoned on the official day of change. Next, Fox (13.1 here /their transmitter is on the Washington Peninsula) has made a deal to be carried on a downtown Seattle tower as a subchannel (22.2). So everything is still in flux.
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