Don_M

NeedfreeTV

Thanks again Don!! I'll be trying that tonight. I'll report back here to let you guys know what happens.

NeedfreeTV

Good grief......I don't EVER want to do that again!!! 35ft in the air is NO FUN!!!

Anyways, I turned off the FM trap, and it didn't do any good for 2.1 or 2.2. But the FM seemed to come in BETTER. Now I'm wondering if it was off to begin with.

Anyways........I'm going to experiment some more with Don's advice and spin the rotor all over the place to see what happens. I only went a few degrees off last time to see if that helped 2.1. This time, I'll spin it around.

erieadams

I had the same problem but different location and I got the 7084p and now I get them all and more then I thought I would even some 80+ miles away I've heard mixed reviews on the 8200u and was told to get the 7084p or the 8200p but stay away from the u but thats just my 2 cents But i'm jealous of your tower looks very nice and professional

NeedfreeTV

What was the antenna you had before?

Also, it looks like the 8200P must be an outdated model, only the 8200U shows up on Winegard's site.

I wish there was a way to test out another antenna. I do not want to miss FOX programming.

NeedfreeTV

So is this correct? Got this from a website I found:

VHF is 2-13. Broken down into two subcategories:
VHF low is 2-6- no US broadcasters on these levels
VHF high is 7-13- US broadcasters start here (2.1 for me is 7).
UHF is 38-83, of which US only uses 38-69.

The common talk I've heard is that the US is NOT broadcasting in VHF since the transition, but if the above chart is true, then they obviously are broadcasting in VHF still (7-13). Techincally, they are no longer broadcasting in VHF LO. (right?)



Also, I found charts from the Winegard site on the 7084P and HD8200U. Concerning Channel 7 (my 2.1), the chart shows:

8200U db gain is 10.4, 30 degree bandwidth at halfway, and 17db front to back ratio
7084P db gain is 10.9, 31 degree bandwidth at halfway, and 19db front to back ratio.

First off, what the heck is front to back ratio?

Second, do those number show the 7084 would have been a better choice for me?

THANKS!!

JER

The definition of Front-to-Back Ratio from IEEE Std 145-1993 is as follows:

"2.163 front-to-back ratio. The ratio of the maximum directivity of an antenna to its directivity in a specified
rearward direction.
NOTES
1—This definition is usually applied to beamtype patterns.
2—If the rearward direction is not specified, it shall be taken to be that of the maximum directivity in the rearward hemi-
sphere relative to the antenna’s orientation."

My commentary:

If the specifications for your antenna is written strictly according to IEEE definition then you should be confident that there is no rear hemisphere lobe greater than X dB down from the main beam gain (assumed in the boresight direction).

If instead, they chose to specify front-to-back ratio at 180 degrees (with the 180 degrees implied - something not compliant with the IEEE definition) then you only know that 180 degrees away from the main beam that the gain is X dB down from gain at boresight. The problem with this number is that you can easily have an antenna that produces a null 180 degrees from boresight. This null will be substantially lower than the other rear lobes causing the Front-to-Back ratio to appear larger than what you might experience in practice since interfering signals are rarely exactly 180 degrees from boresight.

Realise that computing or measuring front-to-back ratio across the whole rear hemisphere is harder than the single point method. In a practical sense, a test range might be limited to a horizontal plane pattern cut and even a simulator can often only compute so many pattern cuts before the computation becomes too time consuming. Either way, someone has to sit down and find the maximum rear directivity based on a finite amount of data. Some may take two cuts, say a horizontal and vertical plane, and call it good enough. Others may do more cuts before they are satisfied. How many they do might depend on the type of antenna and how critical it is to know exactly the worst case ratio.

You also need to consider that antenna beam patterns, especially side lobes and back lobes can vary widely with frequency so just because the Front-to-Back ratio might be say 20 dB at 600 MHz, doesn't mean that it will be 20 dB at 50 or 500 MHz. It could be lower or it could be higher and the only way to know for sure is to compute it at the frequency of interest.

Hope this helps!

Don_M

True.
False. There are roughly three dozen full-power DTV stations with assignments on 2-6, plus scores of low-power licensees. (It is true that a number of the full-power boys have asked off and would like to go to the UHF band, though.)
True.
Well... It is true that of nearly 400 VHF full-power DTV assignments, 90 percent of them are to channels 7 through 13.
Nope. The UHF "core" -- where all full-power DTV stations reside -- is channels 14-51 inclusive. Some low-power stations, both analog and digital, broadcast on channels 52-69, but many if not most will be squeezed out as new broadband, wireless and mobile-TV services get rolled out on these frequencies in coming years.

Channels 70-83 haven't been assigned to TV broadcasts for 26 years. Chances are fair to good you're using one or more of the frequencies in that band the next time you talk, text or surf on your cell phone.
It's a specification comparing how much signal an antenna gathers from the front versus the rear. In very general terms, the higher the F/B ratio, the more forward gain an antenna provides. High F/B-ratio antennas are also desirable in situations where strong signal reflections from the rear might cause multipath interference. The 2-dB difference between these antennas isn't significant at your location.
I don't think so. You probably wouldn't notice a half-decibel difference in any parameter, including gain. That's an anomaly of the 7084's design. It's a near-fringe antenna. The 8200 is for deep-fringe areas, like yours. It's widely acknowledged as the finest all-channel antenna available in the USA, and that's been true for some time now.

NeedfreeTV

I GOT FOX!!!!

THANKS for the help guys. Man, I'm happy as a clam now. I tried everything I could think of with the rotation of the antenna, nothing..........but.......I went through the TV setup and FINALLY found the "add digital channels", and it went through......low and behold, I'm watching the World Series in HD now baby!!! HECK YEAH!!! FOX 2.1 is here!!

Thanks for the help everyone. This is great!!! Finally living up to my username........well, maybe I'll rename myself as GotfreeTV!! HAHAHA

These HD pictures are AMAZING!!

EscapeVelocity

That's great NeedFreeTV.

It seems like you actually had the FM trap engaged by default, and then disengaged it.

You can get the CA-8800 and split the signal from the same line with very little loss, like .4 dB, and run that to your FM tuner. Should work gang busters for you.

Great to hear of your success! .... and erieadams' as well!

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