Antenna advice needed, Boulder Colorado

Hi Dan!

Yeah I thought it looked pretty fool proof and after reading this thread i was looking forward to a quick and easy setup on the chimney and voila 28 channels



Small end pointed south, cable is "newish" and a store bought run, not fabricated by me...for testing the run is 25 feet (make that 50...25 from antenna to junction box i plan to use, 25 from that to the test TV), through the window screen, to one box (a dynex), directly connected to the antenna...well sort of...couldnt find a straight through connector so used a splitter but the antenna and the tv are the only things connected.

I can (if it helps?) list the channels that are coming through.

Phil

Originally Posted by gokartchief

I can (if it helps?) list the channels that are coming through.

That would be helpful. Also, using the splitter may be a problem. The open end is effecting the signal despite nothing being connected. Actually I've seen where you can make a frequency specific filter using a splitter like that. (Picking out, installing, and pointing a TV antenna - Home) I'd say get a real connector and try again. When you say that the cable is "newish" do you mean cable that hasn't been out in the weather?

I've got a Dynex, and it seems to have a good tuner on it.

Also, is the balun new and in good condition? Just making sure.

got rid of the spliiter...now connected using the ground block that dtv runs through (disconnected one of four lines and connected antenna/tv to either side)...
having worked on long range radar in the usaf, i should have thought about the splitter (even though not connected) causing harmonic problems...although bypassing it didnt bring in kcnc.

virtual channel numbers received
2-1,2-2
6-1,6-2,6-3
7-1,7-2,7-3,7-4
9-1,9-2
11-0 (very snowy)
14-1 (tuned but black screen)
20-1,20-2
31-1,31-2
39-0 (very snowy)
50-1,50-2

so thats 20 channels (counting the two snow analog channels) which is more than i got yesterday...maybe my compass is really trash and i need to go another 10 degrees or so to the southwest? (i'm 99% sure i wasnt getting 50-N yesterday, in fact i'm sure...the "13" i listed were the 2,6,7,9, and 31 series although I also got at least one of the 20's yesterday...flying fickle finger of fate?

Phil

cable is newish in that yes, its not been outdoors, not fabbed by me, and has been used when i need to put a tv in the bathroom for a super bowl party (typically)...and i'd be surprised if it was older than one year

What is the signal quality for each main channel (2-1, 31-1, etc.)? You should be able to see the signal quality by pressing "info" on the remote. It records it as poor, normal, good, and excellent. (red, orange, green, blue) I'm guessing 2, 6, and 31 are on the poor side.

Are there any tall buildings, boulders, or trees to the south of you?

I have a strange feeling there is still some cabling or connection problem. Even though 11 (KBDI) is coming in from the north, it should be more than "very snowy" given your proximity to the transmitter. (2.5 miles) Of course, now I see that it may have serious co-channel from KQCK. But anyway, check all your cables and connections again.

Can you get someone to read the signal meter while you tweak the antenna, and use a radio or phone to communicate?

In the mountains, sometimes the best signal is not always where TVfool says.

2-1 "good" 70+
6-1 "fluctuating" 50 max
7-1 "good" 92
9-1 "good" 97
20-1 "fluctuating" 60 max but lots of drops
31-1 "good" 75+
50-1 "fluctuating" 50 max

"some" trees to the immediate south of us...

i've tried to tune to 4-1 for KCNC so that I could spin the antenna whilst someone watches, but the telly wont tune to the channel (or i cant find a "serious...i want to go to that channel" menu item)

The fluctuating sounds like multi-path caused by the trees (are they hardwoods or softwood?) or a strong bounce off the moutains. Do take MrPogi's advice and try differen't aim points.

antennaweb.org seems to agree with the alignment from tvfool...gave the antenna ~5 degree twist to the SW, no change for kcnc but i lost 50-1...not sure about neighbors trees, will have to take another look...maybe i went the wrong way and need to go more towards southeast...although i'm pretty sure lookout mtn is pretty much 180 from boulder...as everything else is coming in from that direction i'm a bit stumped...

turned antenna back SE (where i swear it was yesterday)...and getting KCNC at a sig strength of 65 (which is "good" for my TV)...gah...hate to have bothered the group when it was/is a tuning issue

Originally Posted by gokartchief

turned antenna back SE (where i swear it was yesterday)...and getting KCNC at a sig strength of 65 (which is "good" for my TV)...gah...hate to have bothered the group when it was/is a tuning issue

That is what we're here for. Let us know if you have any more problems.

Actually, if you walked the antenna around the roof, you might find a "hot spot" that would give you better signal than the current location.

Posting a couple of pics of the home made fractal antenna. What was intended as a temporary installation - a few strips of fiber tape - has held up through nearly two months extremely high winds, rain, and lots of direct sunlight. Just checked again yesterday, still looks good. The second photo shows the line of site to the nearest antenna farm.

I've had no problems with this at all, and the reception is flawless.

Fractal Antenna 1.jpg Fractal Antenna 2.jpg

googling brought me back to a thread i was already on...how nice!

got a better compass, re-pointed antenna and now get kcnc very well (which was the original "problem") however after doing this, ktvd (20-1 and 20-2) basically on the same sight line, is constantly dropping. I watch it often enough (like for NCAAF this morning) that I'd like to get it sorted. Re-reading the posts and other google results, I'm wondering if it's just splitting causing the issues or if i need a pre-amp or what. I'm using the existing DirecTV cabling that was on/in the house before I cancelled and went OTA. Pretty sure that off the roof it goes into a ground block for two lines (maybe more I'll double check), into the basement where I take one feed into a splitter for the 4 rooms in the house. Currently only two TV's are hooked up, i don't have resistor terminals on the splitter and on top of the spotty 20-1/2 reception, one TV gets considerably less channels than the other.

So...get a single ground block for outside? get a splitter inside for only the number of tvs hooked up? get terminals for unconnected splits if I keep the 4 way? get a pre-amp? (any recommendations on a pre-amp if i do?)

thanks,
Phil

not that the ground block should matter, as it's basically just a pass through, but thought i'd mention it for the heck of it (maybe it's cheap?) went and got a 2way splitter, no changes. so i guess an amp is worth a try?

@torrential - as you're in boulder (like me) and your tvfool is close enough to mine...do you have any issues with 20-1 and 20-2? curious what channels you get also if you dont mind, and do you use an amp of any kind?

for me the channels that are solid
2.1 2.2
4.1
6.1 6.2 6.3
7.1 7.2 .7.3 7.4
9.1 9.2
24.1 24.2 24.3 (repeat of the 6's)
31.1 31.2

maybe i should build the fractal and get rid of the antennacraft...don't really think thats the issue, but the low profile of the fractal is nice

Originally Posted by gokartchief

... I'm wondering if it's just splitting causing the issues or if i need a pre-amp or what.

Phil,

Try removing the 4-way splitter from the system and temporarily feed your antenna directly to only one TV set. In effect, this test would be similar to increasing the signal using an amplifier. If this resolves the problem, a Channel Master CM-7777 is a good choice for an amplifier. Please keep us posted.

Jim

removed the 4way for a 2way...improved number of channels on the upstairs TV, however it has nothing for 20.1 and 20.2...downstairs tv (sony bravia) still breaking up on 20.1 and 20.2...signal strength tends to always be good (70-85), diagnostics screen says errors are high...not sure what is causing the errors or how to interpret it.

Tried a radio shack inline distribution amp, which was total fail...funny however...their instructions say "if you think the reception isnt better, unplug the amplifier, and if the reception is worse the amp was working"...well just adding the amp and the power piece inline was enough to kill signal 100% until i plugged in the power piece, could be a faulty piece, but I still think it's funny.

I'll try removing the 2way for a straight through, however i'm betting ahead of time it's going to be the same for these two channels.

Phil,

Yep, a non-powered inline amplifier can kill reception. Does your upstairs TV have its own digital tuner or are you using a converter box? I ask because there have been times when my Channel Master CM-7000 box will decipher signals when my Bravia will not. To be fair, the Bravia is working harder to reproduce HD signals whereas the converter box has an SD output.

I've also noticed the Bravia's tuner is superior to the CM box at some frequencies (channels) and the box is superior on other channels. Your Bravia has a pretty good diagnostics screen: high signal "strengths" and bit error reports probably indicates multipath interference. You could try moving your antenna up, down, left, right or to the other side of your roof until you find a 'sweet spot' for reception. Also, it could require trying a different antenna.

Jim

tried the straight through, no splitters, same breaking up/errors on 20-1 and 20-2

no converter boxes, both tvs have their own tuner.

will require another weekend (today done, and tomorrow filled) to try and move the antenna around to find a "sweet spot".

Seemingly, those channels dropped when I corrected my orientation, but I've tried re-orienting back to a "bad" position that got a good signal, and same results...hence the question to the OP about his reception on those channels. I think I'm close to eliminating all things on my end, which would point to the broadcaster...no way to prove that unless others are also having a terrible time with them.

On the upside, I did get more channels on the upstairs TV

Phil

Originally Posted by Jim In Seattle

Phil,

Yep, a non-powered inline amplifier can kill reception. Does your upstairs TV have its own digital tuner or are you using a converter box? I ask because there have been times when my Channel Master CM-7000 box will decipher signals when my Bravia will not. To be fair, the Bravia is working harder to reproduce HD signals whereas the converter box has an SD output.

I've also noticed the Bravia's tuner is superior to the CM box at some frequencies (channels) and the box is superior on other channels. Your Bravia has a pretty good diagnostics screen: high signal "strengths" and bit error reports probably indicates multipath interference. You could try moving your antenna up, down, left, right or to the other side of your roof until you find a 'sweet spot' for reception. Also, it could require trying a different antenna.

Jim

the turners all are differents, some are more sensitive others are just worthless to the price you paid, the same applies in all the DTV systems, i have 2 converter boxes for DTV, the first that i got, just can not pull up the channel 4.1 virtual channel (27 in the UHF) because is using low power of broadcast just 200KW and the second converter box is more sensitive, can pull up the channel 4.1 but with breaks ups every 2 minutes due the low beam intensity of broadcast, with the same antenna same all.

the first converter box the menu is ugly but give me some information about the PCR of the audio and video, even that data is useless to me because do not mean nothing those numbers.

those data give my converter box, is connected via HDMI both converter boxes as both can get output to the HD 1080 the video.

is connected to my plasma television that is just HD 1080 ready

IMG078.jpg