Can't Pickup ABC Station 31 miles away!
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Can't Pickup ABC Station 31 miles away!


This is a discussion on Can't Pickup ABC Station 31 miles away! within the DTV | HDTV Reception and Antenna Discussion forums, part of the Over-the-Air (Antenna TV) category.

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  1. #1
    DTVUSA Jr. Member
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    Can't Pickup ABC Station 31 miles away!

    Hey Guys:

    I own the Antennas Direct Micron-R antenna that receives up to 35 miles of stations. I used to get all channels, ABC,PBS,NBC,FOX,CBS. But lately I have been missing ABC. I have re-scanned numerous times with the same result. So I went on antenna web.org and now the ABC tower is listed at 31 miles away! Which is weird because FOX is also 31 miles away but I get it with no issues on my TV. Any help would be appreciated for someone not-so fond with antennas!

    Zip:28590

    Antenna: Antennas Direct Micron-R 35 Miles
    TV: Sony Wega SXRD 60"

  2. #2
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    WCTI is a VHF station, and the antenna you have is not good at receiving VHF signals. You will need an antenna better-suited for VHF reception.

    - Trip
    N4MJC

    Comments are my own and not that of my employer or anyone else.

    RabbitEars

    "Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

  3. #3
    DTVUSA Jr. Member
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    OK thanks for the help. By the way, did they move just recently?
    Also do you know any good UHF/VHF INDOOR antennnas not so bulky? I'm not so excited in mounting an antenna in the attic or on the roof.

  4. #4
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    There are no good indoor antennas, only acceptable ones.

    If you want a good antenna you MUST use an outdoor antenna.

    Really, using any antenna inside subjects it to all the reflections and distortions by walls, doors, metal appliances and attenuation by the buildings materials themselves.

    If you have a good strong signal you have to gbe careful of multipath indoors, if you have a moderate signal you might get a stable picture, if it is weak it's probably not receivable.

    Put up a small outdoor antenna, even if you must place it in a window facing the broadcast towers.

  5. #5
    DTVUSA Jr. Member
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    Thread Starter

    So, Im guessing no luck with this VHF Signal thing?

  6. #6
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    You're going to want something that looks more like a "traditional" antenna. I recently purchased a Terk HDTVi on Amazon for $14 and it performs beautifully. Or, at least, as much as can be expected out of an indoor antenna.

    WCTI has not moved recently, but atmospheric conditions can impact your reception.

    - Trip
    N4MJC

    Comments are my own and not that of my employer or anyone else.

    RabbitEars

    "Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

  7. #7
    DTVUSA Jr. Member
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    Thread Starter

    Can you give me a link to that antenna? Thanks

  8. #8
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    Thanks for all the help guys.

    I guess I'll just stick my current antenna. I really only watch the local news from CBS,NBC,and FOX. I can watch my college football games from ESPN3. Does anybody know any good way to display the PC screen on TV? Maybe even wirelessly??

  9. #9
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    Hi Jim,

    I'm sure you're a nice enough guy, and your advice may be stellar in this case ... but you have an absolutist point of view that's just soooooo easy to pick apart.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim5506 View Post
    There are no good indoor antennas, only acceptable ones.
    Oh, c'mon. Define indoor antenna. Once you do that, are you going to say the one that provides the very best reception in that class, for a given situation, is NOT a "good indoor antenna"??

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim5506 View Post
    If you want a good antenna you MUST use an outdoor antenna.

    Really, using any antenna inside subjects it to all the reflections and distortions by walls, doors, metal appliances and attenuation by the buildings materials themselves.
    So? What if there are no reflections or distortions from any of those materials? What if you can get your indoor high enough so the only materials between transmitter and antenna are completely transparent to RF waves in the required range(s)?

    Further, what if the very best height for the antenna places it inside the house? We have numerous statements here, from long time professional installers, who say a few inches, or a few feet, up or down can make all the difference. Sometimes the reason defies explanation. (One guy had to put his antenna flat on the ground).

    I know it's not the norm, but I'm not willing to say it's rare, either. To me, anything rare has to be at most a 1 in 1000 shot -- possibly less, depending on the context. Witness the doctors' claims that autism is now common, because a child has a 1 in 100 chance of being born with it. I'll hazard a guess that as many as 1 in 50 people might be better off with an indoor antenna, by which I mean any antenna you install indoors. (I refuse to be bound by the arbitrary labels created by the manufacturers who created this mess in the first place. My CM 4221HD is an indoor antenna -- the 4221 is even listed in EV's Indoor Antenna Roundup.)

    You study and study, and one day you feel like you've come to some definite conclusions -- that means you better study some more.

    Oh, BTW, you mentioned in another thread that the laws of physics had "not been repealed," or words to that effect. Some of the top physicists in the world are not so sure ...


    Here's another way to think about it: "Just a spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go dowwown ..."

    Have a good'n
    Rick

  10. #10
    The Graveyard Shift
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickideemus View Post
    Oh, c'mon. Define indoor antenna. Once you do that, are you going to say the one that provides the very best reception in that class, for a given situation, is NOT a "good indoor antenna"??
    Anyone who goes around recommending indoor antennas is looking for trouble. You wouldnt recommend a cell phone that worked underground or in a large parking tower (assuming there were no cell repeaters), because you know while it may work, its probably gonna be hit and miss, and it'll almost definately be substandard. Indoor antennas can work, definately, noone is saying they cant, but they get the job done, they dont do it well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickideemus View Post
    So? What if there are no reflections or distortions from any of those materials? What if you can get your indoor high enough so the only materials between transmitter and antenna are completely transparent to RF waves in the required range(s)?
    Only in a perfect world would their be no reflections. In any home there will be multiple reflections of varying strengths. Hell even if you lived in a cave.

    Even glass isnt transparent to RF (especially if its even slightly metallised). And walls/floors/rooves definately arent. You could keep the window open and mount the antenna almost out the window. But then isnt that pretty much an outdoor antenna anyway

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickideemus View Post
    Further, what if the very best height for the antenna places it inside the house? We have numerous statements here, from long time professional installers, who say a few inches, or a few feet, up or down can make all the difference.
    If theres a good place inside the house, there would be a good place in the same line (TV signals dont bend) outside of the house which will provide better results.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickideemus View Post
    Sometimes the reason defies explanation. (One guy had to put his antenna flat on the ground).
    The reason he had to do that, and the reason up/down/left/right can help is due to diffraction.



    Quote Originally Posted by Rickideemus View Post
    I know it's not the norm, but I'm not willing to say it's rare, either. To me, anything rare has to be at most a 1 in 1000 shot -- possibly less, depending on the context. Witness the doctors' claims that autism is now common, because a child has a 1 in 100 chance of being born with it. I'll hazard a guess that as many as 1 in 50 people might be better off with an indoor antenna, by which I mean any antenna you install indoors. (I refuse to be bound by the arbitrary labels created by the manufacturers who created this mess in the first place. My CM 4221HD is an indoor antenna -- the 4221 is even listed in EV's Indoor Antenna Roundup.)
    Have a good'n
    Rick
    Any indoor antenna isnt doing anyone any favours. The only people who will get good reception with indoor antennas are those within a quite small radius of transmitters. Using an outdoor antenna though, you could power many outlets, even dozens upon dozens with midrange gear.

    Even in homes where a TV can work with an indoor antenna, it may not work for the kids tv in the bedroom, or the TV in the shed where Mr Rick tinkers with his antennas.

    To have good and reliable reception, a roofmount antenna is by far the best. Take it from someone who installs antennas where a station dropping out is not acceptable at all, people know and expect 24/7/365 reception.

    I can count the number of attic mount installs I have done on my fingers.



    As for indoor/outdoor, theres not much to it really:
    Indoor antennas dont have any mountings other than to sit/attach indoors.
    Outdoor antennas have mounting for tubular steel and are waterproof. (incl. Attic antennas)

    The CM4221HD is an outdoor antenna. Of course there is nothing stopping the dedicated from mounting one indoors.
    nbound-au is a qualified Antenna, Satellite, and MATV installer.

    I live in DVB-T land.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbound-au View Post
    Anyone who goes around recommending indoor antennas is looking for trouble.
    Uh huh. Even if a poster specifically asks for an indoor antenna? Anyone who goes around recommending antennas, PERIOD, is looking for trouble.

    Your beliefs are clearly colored by your profession. I know you can't help it -- it's instinctive to protect your livelihood -- and people who buy indoor antennas have little or no need for an installer.

    Quote Originally Posted by nbound-au View Post
    You wouldnt recommend a cell phone that worked underground or in a large parking tower (assuming there were no cell repeaters), because you know while it may work, its probably gonna be hit and miss, and it'll almost definately be substandard. Indoor antennas can work, definately, noone is saying they cant, but they get the job done, they dont do it well.
    Your position is that all indoor antennas are, by definition, a scam. (Don't try to backtrack -- that's precisely what you've said.) Therefore, all antenna manufacturers with indoors in their lineup (Channel Master, Winegard ... all the biggies) are committing fraud, and all the millions upon millions of people who buy them are idiots. Don't you realize how silly that makes you sound??

    Quote Originally Posted by nbound-au View Post
    If theres a good place inside the house, there would be a good place in the same line (TV signals dont bend) outside of the house which will provide better results.
    Makes no sense. Suppose there are exactly 5 stations that are receivable at a given location, and all come in with perfect reliability with an indoor. All other stations are weak and over 80 miles away. What are these "better results" you speak of?? You love making these absolute, sweeping pronouncements. Pretty silly!

    Quote Originally Posted by nbound-au View Post
    Any indoor antenna isnt doing anyone any favours.
    Sure as $^%! did me a favor (as well as a favour)! Without my indoor antenna, I'd have no reception other than internet TV, which is unreliable at present, though I have great hopes for the future. I have NO option for an outdoor installation. This is very common today, for apartment dwellers in the U.S. In fact, I'll bet it's close to 20%, with another 20-30% who just don't want to make waves. It's certainly millions upon millions of people.

    Quote Originally Posted by nbound-au View Post
    The only people who will get good reception with indoor antennas are those within a quite small radius of transmitters.
    I guess you must think I'm lying. I've posted several times I'm 48 miles away from the Willis tower in Chicago, and I receive all 11 of those stations with 100% reliability.

    Quote Originally Posted by nbound-au View Post
    Using an outdoor antenna though, you could power many outlets, even dozens upon dozens with midrange gear.

    Even in homes where a TV can work with an indoor antenna, it may not work for the kids tv in the bedroom, or the TV in the shed where Mr Rick tinkers with his antennas.
    Got no kids; got no shed; got no need for two TVs. I can point to two dozen apartment buildings just in my small town, where just about every renter is in the same situation. You don't see them. They don't call antenna installers. But they might very well ask questions on dtvusaforum.com!

    Quote Originally Posted by nbound-au View Post
    To have good and reliable reception, a roofmount antenna is by far the best. Take it from someone who installs antennas where a station dropping out is not acceptable at all, people know and expect 24/7/365 reception.
    You keep saying I should believe you cause you install antennas for a living. I can understand that -- your job also depends on people accepting you as an expert. But your expertise almost disqualifies you in this area. For example ...

    Quote Originally Posted by nbound-au View Post
    As for indoor/outdoor, theres not much to it really:
    Indoor antennas dont have any mountings other than to sit/attach indoors.
    Outdoor antennas have mounting for tubular steel and are waterproof. (incl. Attic antennas)
    And what do you do about antennas (e.g. HDA-5700) advertised as indoor/outdoor? Sorry, you've drunk from the Koolaid.

    *I* am not the one with the extreme position. *I* don't go around saying all outdoor antennas are worthless, now do I?

    Quote Originally Posted by nbound-au View Post
    The CM4221HD is an outdoor antenna. Of course there is nothing stopping the dedicated from mounting one indoors.
    Took no dedication whatsoever. Much, MUCH simpler than an outdoor installation. And I can swivel it around without a rotor, and test and tinker without EVEN hiking to my nonexistent shed.

    Rick

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickideemus View Post
    Uh huh. Even if a poster specifically asks for an indoor antenna? Anyone who goes around recommending antennas, PERIOD, is looking for trouble.
    If a poster asks for an indoor antenna, they should be told that it is not the best solution, and may or may not work. Even for outdoor antennas noone here states something WILL work, because there is never any guarantee (though its more likely).

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickideemus View Post
    Your beliefs are clearly colored by your profession. I know you can't help it -- it's instinctive to protect your livelihood -- and people who buy indoor antennas have little or no need for an installer.
    Hardly, aerials are a small part of repetoire - I cover Satellite, Surveillance (CCTV), Security (Alarms), Audio/Visual systems, Home theatre systems, Audio Systems, PA systems, Some networking, some GSM, and the list goes on. Aerials are my the part i enjoy the most (along with satellite), BUT if aerials were banned tomorrow, Id still have plenty of work to do. And also, the number of times Ive heard "I tried a set of rabbit ears (colloquial term for any indoor antenna here), and I got nothing - Can you come have a look?", Hell if I had a dollar for every time...


    Quote Originally Posted by Rickideemus View Post
    Your position is that all indoor antennas are, by definition, a scam. (Don't try to backtrack -- that's precisely what you've said.) Therefore, all antenna manufacturers with indoors in their lineup (Channel Master, Winegard ... all the biggies) are committing fraud, and all the millions upon millions of people who buy them are idiots. Don't you realize how silly that makes you sound??
    Dont strawman me Rick, Their use is extremely limited - I never stated they are a scam. I never stated people who buy them are idiots (if it works for them - then great).


    Quote Originally Posted by Rickideemus View Post
    Makes no sense. Suppose there are exactly 5 stations that are receivable at a given location, and all come in with perfect reliability with an indoor. All other stations are weak and over 80 miles away. What are these "better results" you speak of?? You love making these absolute, sweeping pronouncements. Pretty silly!
    Again, dont strawman me, I was referring to your diffracted signals example (up down left right a few inches). Ill tackle this new one here, if there are 5 local stations that come in strong and NOTHING else then sure grab an indoor antenna. But again their use will be limited to a very small area around the local transmitter(s).



    Quote Originally Posted by Rickideemus View Post
    Sure as $^%! did me a favor (as well as a favour)! Without my indoor antenna, I'd have no reception other than internet TV, which is unreliable at present, though I have great hopes for the future. I have NO option for an outdoor installation. This is very common today, for apartment dwellers in the U.S. In fact, I'll bet it's close to 20%, with another 20-30% who just don't want to make waves. It's certainly millions upon millions of people.
    Sure, but again, I never stated they dont work (in fact i stated the opposite in my previous post), obviously you realise that with an outdoor installation you would get better results (I know that isnt an option, but if it were).




    Quote Originally Posted by Rickideemus View Post
    I guess you must think I'm lying.
    Why would I think that? (Ive never stated that!)


    Quote Originally Posted by Rickideemus View Post
    I've posted several times I'm 48 miles away from the Willis tower in Chicago, and I receive all 11 of those stations with 100% reliability.
    Great, Im glad it works for you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickideemus View Post
    And what do you do about antennas (e.g. HDA-5700) advertised as indoor/outdoor?
    Its an outdoor antenna with a strange mount, in general you can mount a small outdoor antenna indoors, but you cannot just mount any indoor antenna outdoors (as they arent waterproof). They can advertise it however they want, obviously its a small antenna, you could mount it reasonably well indoors, you'll get better results with it outdoors of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickideemus View Post
    *I* am not the one with the extreme position. *I* don't go around saying all outdoor antennas are worthless, now do I?
    Umm, where did I say that? Why am I being attacked over this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickideemus View Post
    Took no dedication whatsoever. Much, MUCH simpler than an outdoor installation. And I can swivel it around without a rotor, and test and tinker without EVEN hiking to my nonexistent shed.
    Yes, but most people wont goto the trouble of mounting an outdoor antenna indoors. Unless theyve been shown or told by someone else.


    Rick, Overalll - inclase its not clear - indoor antennas have limited use (not population use wise - signal wise) - indoor antennas are drastically affected by the building(s), people, etc that are in proximity- indoor antennas will provide poorer results versus an outdoor antenna. - These are my only claims. I am not taking aim at people who own them. Im glad that it works for you!
    Last edited by nbound-au; 09-05-2012 at 12:55 AM.
    nbound-au is a qualified Antenna, Satellite, and MATV installer.

    I live in DVB-T land.


  13. #13
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    On DTV Forum Australia, this is the first section of the Indoor Antenna thread:

    All,

    Indoor antennas are the last resort for DTV

    Information for Renters

    Lots of people who want to use indoor antennas use them in apartments because the Master Antenna TV system is not capable of digital TV. The cheapest option is for all sets in that installation be equipped with either a digital TV or a Set top box prior to the upgrade. This will minimise the cost to the landlord/body corporate. Please present MDU Handbook to the body corporate or landlord.

    Digital Switchover status of multi-dwelling units and other buildings with shared antenna systems
    Indoor antennas for buildings without a shared antenna system


    Digital TV will almost always produce "perfect" pictures and sound.

    However if the signal quality (enough signal and a freedom from reflected signals) is not sufficient you will get the following;
    • An internally generated no signal sign
    • Picture breaks up into blocks and the sound goes silent. When the sound mutes it often makes a loud chirp.
    • The above effect can occur when electrical devices including power insulators in the street arc. So when washing machines, air conditioners etc internally switch the above effects.
    • Rain particularly on tile roofs can also reduce the signal to give the above effects.
    • Metal roofs and concrete reinforcing stops TV signals, so the antenna must be near an outside wall.
    • People and objects can vary the reflected signals causing problems.

    Apartments
    One of the main reasons people are forced into indoor antennas, is that they try and use an antenna socket in an apartment. Master Antenna TV systems usually only amplify the channels required. Digital TV uses different channels to prevent interference and these are not necessarily amplified. For Master antenna (one antenna for many units) in which you cannot get all your digital channels it need to be upgraded. They should be upgraded to Australian Standard AS1367:2007. The building management will have to do this.
    See Im not crazy!
    Last edited by nbound-au; 09-05-2012 at 01:08 AM.
    nbound-au is a qualified Antenna, Satellite, and MATV installer.

    I live in DVB-T land.


  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickideemus View Post
    I guess you must think I'm lying. I've posted several times I'm 48 miles away from the Willis tower in Chicago, and I receive all 11 of those stations with 100% reliability.
    There are 12 stations on Willis Tower. 15 if you count the three LPTV stations.

    - Trip
    N4MJC

    Comments are my own and not that of my employer or anyone else.

    RabbitEars

    "Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

 

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