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Old 11-03-2009, 02:49 PM   #11 (permalink)
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And I'm sure some older person thought the same of the changes in society when you were younger, changes that you appreciated because of where you were in your life.
As I said in the post above, many things I heard the old folks warn about, that our generation ignored bit us in the as-ss...

It's an old argument, one which you personally will not be able to decide until you reach my age. As I thought like you at your age.
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Old 11-03-2009, 02:57 PM   #12 (permalink)
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As I said in the post above, many things I heard the old folks warn about, that our generation ignored bit us in the as-ss...
And many did not. No one legitimately keeps score, and I wouldn't put much credence is anyone's gut-feel for what the score was, since it will be colored by whatever answer they feel would be support the point they're trying to make in the moment.

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It's an old argument, one which you personally will not be able to decide until you reach my age. As I thought like you at your age.
How convenient.
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Old 11-03-2009, 08:41 PM   #13 (permalink)
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How convenient.
It is just the way life is dude. You learn, you gain life experience, you expire.

If you speak in general a lot of things did work out.

But I should have narrowed my discussion. Things that involve basic greed of human nature. That has not changed in recorded history. Societies and individual make the same mistakes over and over again.

Maybe a good example to me is the current economy. If throws out all complementary economists and economic theory of the last 50 to 60 years and just looks at history, the same thing happens over and over. First credit becomes the basis for exchange of goods, not real wealth. The credit is often mortgaged again a commodity that suddenly starts booming. The credit becomes easier as there is perceived value in the boom. Most begin to think there is no end to the boom. When it collapses the credit markets collapse and there is an economic down turn.

It has happened a few times in the USA, and many times in other cultures, so it's not unique to American capitalism by any means.

But the key factor is people forget, or pretend they are a new brave world where the rules of the past are holding them back, and not harm will come to them as did previous generations.

But we have wildly left my original premise of the airwaves being public, and Don has a good point. Why just auction them, but charge an on going fee for their use? Then at least they are not owned. Even I have to pay property taxes on my real estate, as I can't just say I own it free and clear. If I don't pay, I can loose it for pennies on the dollar.

The other point is the limited amount of wireless spectrum that they could gain by eliminating all of UHF TV won't last them long.

If they have used up 400 MHz of spectrum and are already feeling a crunch 4 months or so after acquiring the latest 100 MHz, well UHF TV is only roughly 300 MHz more. That is less than what they currently own.

Then take the fact they were given 100 MHz in the mid 1980s. They needed more by the mid 1990s and obtained the old 2GHz point to point microwave band for 200 more Mhz. Now they have the 700 Mhz band for another 100 Mhz, or again I total of 400 MHz.

Considering birth rates and expansion of those that own a cell phone are growing in a non-linear fashion, if they were given UHF TV they would be out of spectrum by my guess in 15 to 20 years.

To me this is a akin to driving a Hummer and blowing up the middle east for more oil.

Instead of a more efficient use of spectrum, they just want more, as it's cheaper to deliver more cell phones to the public, more bills to send out, more money. Currently shorter towers closer together would indeed cost more, and cell phone bills would go up.

This to me is directly akin to cheap oil. We already know now that Standard Oil and General Motors killed the electric street car for the oil powered city bus. CAFE standards were reduced in the 1980s. General Motors killed their electric car, the EV around 2000.

Conclusion and probably my biggest point is continued frequency grabs are not sustainable way to do business nor more so that oil will last forever.
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Old 11-04-2009, 01:54 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Time will tell.
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Old 11-04-2009, 07:20 AM   #15 (permalink)
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It sure will. As we think the recession is abating by 2010 through 2012 or so, with jobs coming back, they won't. Growth will slow.

We will be lucky if we don't wake up one day during that time to find all foreign governments and private investors have lost confidence in the US Dollar and we are going down hill again.

We didn't see a recession, we saw the start of the economic power moving from the west to the east.
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:00 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Rectifying the imbalance that has existed since approximately 1854, which has provided Americans (especially) a higher standard of living that is attributable to its immutable strengths.
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Old 11-04-2009, 02:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default The death of OTA broadcasting

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http://tvtechnology.com/article/89516

Well the CEA is all over killing OTA. Probably some will be left on VHF, with one channel per town, with subs running SD programming to fit in one channel.

The reason stated is the twitter bug texting drones need more bandwidth for their cell phones and PDAs.

The fact of the matter is they already have about 400 MHz of cell phone frequencies. There are only about 300 Mhz left of UHF TV. So they already have taken 200 MHz from TV and 200 more from microwave links. They already own more spectrum than the hog they call OTA.

Being the CEA behind this, it might not make it on the first pass but it will sooner or later. Well I think a lot depends on who gets behind them and who fights them.

It's all part of the corporate take over of not only USA but the world. Mega mergers with oil, banks, now wireless, medical industry.

This is not a sustainable model for an economy. This is not political, just read economic books. We are not any smarter now, we are not the "new" generation, but just humans about to make even more mistakes that lead to $4 gas (because they killed the alternatives to gasoline over and over), and didn't we have a huge economic collapse a year ago? Too big to fail? No need to use those out dated restraints on massive monopolies?


Get out your wallets, well if anything is in them.......

Might as well tear down your antenna and go ahead and put up a satellite dish.
It is not only the CEA who is trying to steal the OTA spectrum. The biggest players in that game are Microsoft and Google who have already lobbied congress early last year to take OTA TV's spectrum away. Where will that leave the poorer class of citizen who simply cannot afford cable, satellite, or Broadband. Is it fair to class them as second class citizens and deny them basic emergency notification in time of dire need such as 9,11,2001?

How much money is enough for Microsoft and Google who already have more money and profits than they know what to do with. Their claim is that they can provide video, entertainment, and broadband services more efficiently than OTA broadcasters can. Can they explain to me how they are going to handle the Emergency Alert System on a local basis? We already depend to much on satellites for communications when they are vulnerable to sabotage, Gama ray, and sunspot damage. Who really thinks it is wise to put the Emergency Communications system in the hands of Broad band advocates who's motive is for profits, and they could care less about public safety.

Only those who stand to gain financially would even consider such a dangerous concept. We need to gather or stones together and fight this through our elected officials, and it will be an up hill battle because they really don't give a dam what the people think anymore.

Here is an example of one of the more prominent officials who is head of the an important subcommittee that has power over telecommunications. my station is concerned about a proposal that will allow out of market programming to invade the assigned DMA's of any market. An official of our station talked to him about his concerns about how this would effect local broadcasters, and asked him to vote against it.

His response was that he would need a fancy satin jacket with a hood on it, and it should have our affiliates embroidered logo on it before he would consider his request to vote against it. If that does not show you the state of our political world, then nothing does. He has been a Congressman in my state for many years, and I just cannot figure out why people keep electing these types of politicians who are in office for glory, and personal gain more so than representing the people.

Microsoft, Google, and others are fighting for the unused spectrum between TV Channels, which are the so called White spaces, but that is not exactly accurate as they want the entire OTA band to continue with their never dying greed for the almighty dollar.

Here is a link to a story about this very topic... Microsoft, Google Fighting for Unused Spectrum between TV Channels: Scientific American
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Old 11-04-2009, 02:31 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Where will that leave the poorer class of citizen who simply cannot afford cable, satellite, or Broadband. Is it fair to class them as second class citizens and deny them basic emergency notification in time of dire need such as 9,11,2001?
You're making a massive leap from some spectrum reallocation to "deny them basic emergency notification". All likely scenarios end up with all reasonable needs for necessary emergency notification fully and completely safeguarded as well as they are safeguarded by today's system, and perhaps even opens doors for even greater safeguarding (i.e., requiring direct governmental access to impose emergency notification, as they've been asking for).
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Old 11-04-2009, 02:34 PM   #19 (permalink)
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When did OTA Free TV become an inalienable right? Are people that dont own TVs or watch Video entertainment in the home, second class citizens?
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Old 11-04-2009, 02:34 PM   #20 (permalink)
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How much money is enough for Microsoft and Google who already have more money and profits than they know what to do with.
Hello? No company I know of has more money than they know what to do with: By law that money is that of the owners, folks like you and me, saving for our kids' college, saving for our comfortable retirement, etc. No money is left fallow.

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Can they explain to me how they are going to handle the Emergency Alert System on a local basis?
I bet that they can. That's really an important point. Just insinuating that they cannot, without giving them a chance to say, "We can," or "We can't" is disingenuous.
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