DTV USA Forum - DTV / HDTV Reception and Antenna Discussion http://www.dtvusaforum.com Chat about your local DTV and HDTV broadcast stations. Includes antenna reviews, DXing, and reception troubleshooting. en Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:01:31 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.dtvusaforum.com/images/misc/rss.jpg DTV USA Forum - DTV / HDTV Reception and Antenna Discussion http://www.dtvusaforum.com How well do handheld TVs do for reception? http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/14474-how-well-do-handheld-tvs-do-reception.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:49:52 GMT I'm looking at buying a replacement for my old portable tv. I had a bit of a time at the house here when we upgraded to the converter box. I wanted to know if I buy a portable dtv that it will be able to receive signals too. Thank yall for your help! ]]> DTV / HDTV Reception and Antenna Discussion Johnson! http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/14474-how-well-do-handheld-tvs-do-reception.html Tale of Two Rotors http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/14420-tale-two-rotors.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:33:43 GMT It was the best of times, it was the worst of times... I acquired 2 *Gemini Orbit 360 Rotors*....2 different style of boxes. Im assuming the more... It was the best of times, it was the worst of times...

I acquired 2 Gemini Orbit 360 Rotors....2 different style of boxes. Im assuming the more recent make is the full color red colored box....with the more mundane 2 tone box being an older make.

There is an obvious difference.

The older unit has a galvanized raw metal housing. The newer unit has a gray painted unit.

Which is the better longer lasting treatment?

I'm assuming that the galvanized housing is more desirable, as generally speaking, manufactured goods are cheapened over time....the euphemism for this is "continuous improvement." ;)

What say you?

Anyways, I bought 2 to use in azimuth-elevation configuration. I though that they would be the same. Oh well. Thought Id pass on the information...

These have been discontinued for sometime now. They were sold at Walmart in the 90s.



]]> DTV / HDTV Reception and Antenna Discussion EscapeVelocity http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/14420-tale-two-rotors.html <![CDATA[What's the record for most over-the-air channels received?]]> http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/14391-whats-record-most-over-air-channels-received.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:26:55 GMT I know New York City and Los Angeles have the largest market of television stations but is there a single record holder for a single TV setup that's received 40+ channels? Some of you DX'rs out there are probably giggling at this right now, I could be off, maybe the record is much higher. :dunce: ]]> DTV / HDTV Reception and Antenna Discussion Aaron62 http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/14391-whats-record-most-over-air-channels-received.html <![CDATA[TV Reception problems when it's cloudy outside]]> http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/14306-tv-reception-problems-when-its-cloudy-outside.html Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:39:07 GMT I have been losing a couple of stations during cloudy days. This is the second house now where I've had this same problem. Is there any way to get around this? I have an outdoor antenna with a bunch of different bars on it if that helps. ]]> DTV / HDTV Reception and Antenna Discussion SportUte http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/14306-tv-reception-problems-when-its-cloudy-outside.html Weird Reception after purchasing TV http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/13843-weird-reception-after-purchasing-tv.html Sat, 14 Nov 2009 20:53:59 GMT Hello all. Here's the channels I receive before my new LCD purchase. I was using an Insignia converter box with the analog pass-thru. I have a Wineguard hd-1080 at 20ft with a AP-8275 pre-amp.

CBS 6 85%
ABC 8 85%
NBC 12 VHF 60%
PBS 23 60-70%
FOX 35 85%
PBS 57 40% DROP-OUTS
CW 65 90%
I purchase a new LCD Polaroid model TLA-01515B. When I hooked it up I couldn't receive PBS 23 at all. So I hooked the converter box back up and I still had a 60-70% signal. So through the course of experimenting, I used the pass-thru feature of the converter box with a quick-connect jumper from the box to the LCD TV with the converter box off. Now PBS 23 comes in! Just to be sure, I hooked the antenna directly back to the LCD TV, no PBS 23. So as a permenant install, I took a short rg-6 jumper from the box to the TV, no pbs 23. So I used the quick-connect jumper and now I have pbs 23. Has anyone else experienced a situation like this? ]]> DTV / HDTV Reception and Antenna Discussion cwmiddleton http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/13843-weird-reception-after-purchasing-tv.html Will advances in digital technology ever bring more bandwidth for OTA broadcasters? http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/13783-will-advances-digital-technology-ever-bring-more-bandwidth-ota-broadcasters.html Sat, 14 Nov 2009 00:55:38 GMT Just kind of thought of this one today, but since broadcasters are kind of limited with OTA bandwidth and providing HD, subchannels, and now mobile... Just kind of thought of this one today, but since broadcasters are kind of limited with OTA bandwidth and providing HD, subchannels, and now mobile DTV, is there any room to improve the method and delivery of broadcast signals to allow for more programming? Is Digital the final frontier with broadcasters? ]]> DTV / HDTV Reception and Antenna Discussion Aaron62 http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/13783-will-advances-digital-technology-ever-bring-more-bandwidth-ota-broadcasters.html Improve reception with new antenna? http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/13746-improve-reception-new-antenna.html Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:54:22 GMT I'd like to improve the signal strength at our TVs to avoid periodic failures. I am currently receiving all desired channels using an old Radio Shack VHF/UHF antenna, but the signal strength is just barely high enough at the TV to receive some channels, so we occassionally lose them. The antenna is approximately 15 years old and is still in good condition. I'm not sure of the Radio Shack model number, but I think it may be a VU-160. It is approximately 140" long and 64" wide and has 16 VHF and and 25 UHF elements. I have it eave mounted with the antenna about 5' above roof line (~ 20' from ground). I was previously using an old Radio Shack preamp with it, but recently replace it with a Channel Master 7777 since I read that the Radio Shack preamps were rather noisy. Unfortunately upgrading to the CM7777 preamp didn't improve the signal strength measurably, which I don't understand. Apparently the Radio Shack preamp I was using isn't that bad after all.

I attached results from TVFool.com. We are satisfied to receive the following channels listed in order of decreasing signal strength: 39 (39.1), 46 (69.1), 6 (6.1), 26 (3.1), 17 (17.1), 34 (10.1), 12 (12.1), 42 (29.1), 31 (61.1), 32 (57.1). Currently 12, 42, 31, and 32 are the ones that drop out the most, which I'd expect based on the signal levels. All of the low level signals we are attempting to receive are in the same direction, which eliminate the need for a rotor. I currently do have a rotor and found the exact orientation required to have any chance at receiving these channels - any tweaks from this direction and I lose the weakest signals.

I'm hoping that replacing the antenna will solve my problems and hope to get some advice. Note that there is one channel (6) in the low VHF band, one channel (12) in the high VHF band, and we also use the antenna to receive FM. This all leads me to believe that I should go with one of the following antennas:
Channel Master CM3671
Winegard HD8200U
Winegard HD7084P

I was hoping I could get by with a smaller antenna designed for channels 7-69 like the Winegard HD7697P or HD7698P, but I'm not sure if I would end up losing channel 6 and FM.

It's nice to know that there are still some other people out there who still use antennas and hopefully know more than I do.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg tvfool_radar.jpg (19.9 KB)
]]> DTV / HDTV Reception and Antenna Discussion no_pay_tv http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/13746-improve-reception-new-antenna.html Signal Quality affects DTV Reception too !! http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/13735-signal-quality-affects-dtv-reception-too.html Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:39:59 GMT Signal Quality is a factor !! I have spent literally the last 4 months doing field strength tests in our market with some very interesting... Signal Quality is a factor !!

I have spent literally the last 4 months doing field strength tests in our market with some very interesting discoveries about the DTV signal itself. It seems signal quality is a BIG factor that can determine ease of reception of DTV signals, and signal quality is something that the Station Engineers actually control to a certain extent.

Not all reception problems are directly related to an end users antenna, low signal levels, or reception equipment in all cases. A transport stream reader can tell a lot about a signals quality, and that may be the key to a lot of the reception issues that viewers are seeing.

Many stations still do not have the equipment needed to monitor the quality of their signals due to the high costs of the equipment itself. High error vector magnitude, bit error rates, modulation error rates and high SNR ratios are all killers of reliable reception for some DTV signals. Signal quality can vary drastically between different broadcasters in any given market.

If these parameters are near the bottom of the FCC minimum legal specifications, reception will suffer greatly, especially at longer distances from the transmitter ( these parameters along with actual RF power levels help determine where the digital "Cliff" is located ). It also seems that antenna aiming is a critical factor in reliable reception. I went to a cable head end a few weeks ago who was having problems receiving our signal from one of our transmitters.

Our transmitter is located on a 4,000 foot mountain, and the Cable Head End is located on a 4,300 foot mountain with a direct line of sight of only about 23 miles, and they were having occasional unexplained reception issues at random times.

After learning that the RF signal levels were in the great range, at least 20 db above the receivers minimum, the transport stream analyzer was used to aim his antenna, and we improved the critical numbers of his receive antenna by re-aiming it based on the transport stream analyzer numbers and his reception improved drastically.

We are only talking about a few degrees off of optimum aiming, and the analyzer numbers improved greatly. So far, he has had no further issues with reception of our channel. This is an indicator of how critical antenna aiming can be at some more difficult reception locations.

One other issue that contributes to this particular situation is that our transmit antenna has a deep null in the exact direction of the cable head end in question that was intended to protect an analog channel that is now off the air.

Our Broadcast antenna is also side mounted on the tower directly opposite of the receive site, And the combination of the deep null, and the side mounted Broadcast antenna (Which can cause an effect I call tower signal scatter ) can all lead to unreliable reception.

One note to add is that this head end site does have a lot of VHF and UHF 2 way radio and Cell phone antennas, and we may have only nulled out the offending signal by re-aiming the antenna, but I can imagine some viewers who could be experiencing these same issues based on how close they may be to an offending RF source, and a lot of DTV receivers are weak on filtering of RF signals at the front end of the receiver.

If anyone on this forum has any transport stream analyzers available to them, it would be an interesting experiment to show how the signal quality can be effected by antenna aiming itself. I have found that critical signal parameters can be improved by exact aiming of the antenna, and this even applies to signals that are already in an acceptable quality range.

The above scenario with signal nulls, side mounted antennas, and receive sites that have a lot of RF present can all contribute to reception issues for viewers who have no possible way to gauge the quality of any given DTV signal.

The point I am trying to make is that the transition is not complete for many stations. A lot of stations are in the same situation in regards to the transition itself, and a lot of the reception issues viewers are now seeing may be due to circumstances such as this one, and if that is the case then all of the antennas and amps you can buy will never solve these problems. How is the average viewer supposed to know about or deal with all of these possible problems that are yet to be solved in some markets?

If you are having problems with a particular station when most all of the rest of the signals in your area are OK, you may want to call that stations engineering department and inquire about any transmitter site issues or other problems they may be having that can affect reception before you try and solve them yourself by buying amps and antennas that may not solve the problem in question, which could be at the Broadcast end of the DTV signal chain.

There are many broadcasters who are not finished with the DTV transition, and something you do now to solve a problem with a particular station, may not be needed if or when they decide to address their own transmitter site issues, which most of them will do when the cash becomes available. Most Broadcasters are still strapped with loan payments for the new antennas and transmitters, HD equipment for master control etc. so funds to correct these issues may not be immediately available.

See the wave form pictures for examples of good and poor quality DTV signals. When the data levels are not linear across the entire 6mHz channel, the signal quality suffers. If the data levels become as high as the pilot carrier due to a non linear tube or transmitter amplifier, or if it becomes very low and closer to the noise floor, signal quality suffers.

The pilot carrier is the only reference that receivers use to "Find and lock onto" the presence of a DTV signal, and if the data levels are high and not linear, the DTV receiver is sometimes not able to "See" the pilot carrier, or it appears intermittent to the receiver, thus causing drop outs. The DTV transition is not complete for all broadcasters as of now!!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Good Quality dtv wave form .jpg (33.1 KB)
File Type: jpg Poor Quality dtv wave form 2.JPG (31.5 KB)
File Type: jpg Poor Quality dtv wave form 1.JPG (31.0 KB)
]]> DTV / HDTV Reception and Antenna Discussion FOX TV http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/13735-signal-quality-affects-dtv-reception-too.html Looking for HDTV Antenna Suggestions http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/13734-looking-hdtv-antenna-suggestions.html Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:38:17 GMT Looking for a good indoor hdtv antenna to replace my broken rabbit ears. What's the best? I have an HDTV if it makes any difference. ]]> DTV / HDTV Reception and Antenna Discussion Davi http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/13734-looking-hdtv-antenna-suggestions.html Please help a new Dad get the right antenna. http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/13721-please-help-new-dad-get-right-antenna.html Fri, 13 Nov 2009 04:05:01 GMT We just had our first baby and needless to say, free time is almost nonexistant. I've done a bit of research but my time is limited as I work full-time, go to college full-time (new degree) and now watch our child on the weekends when my wife is working. So, I'm asking if you guys could please help me out and in somewhat of a hurry. We're expecting quite a bit of visitors in the coming months (some very soon) and our indoor antenna isn't going to cut it. We lived with it for almost 2 years in our townhouse and now that we own a ranch home I want to install something since I'm allowed to. The antenna we currently have is the Radio Shack 15-1880 and was well rated when I bought it. I'll post a pic at the end.

So, we live about 8 miles from all of the major networks in Columbus, OH where the land is flat. There are some large trees (40 feet high or so) directly east of our house that are about 70 feet away, so they are in our line of site. With the Radio Shack we can get all the major stations but every once in a while channel 6 and 28 will give us troubles and I will have to fine tune things. I want an antenna that I will never have to fiddle with and one that I can use a splitter with to go to three rooms. In the attic, facing east is a side vent at the peak of our roof. I was thinking of possibly installing the following Radio Shack antenna up in the attic near the vent since it has less obstruction at this point. Or, am I going to have to run it on the roof since I plan on splitting the coax and running to three televisions? The runs will be less than 25 feet, each.

40" Boom Length, 17 Elements Outdoor Antenna for UHF-Only - RadioShack.com

Lastly, should I run RG-6 for this or is there a better cable? Do you recommend a good splitter for this? I'll likely be going to Radio Shack to get the goods unless you feel there is something better out there for me. If I can get everything at Radio Shack would you mind showing me exactly what to get?

Thank you so much in advance. Again, just finding the time to research some tonight and type this was tough. My wife is mad at me for not helping her get our little one in bed!

Here's my TV Fool info:

TV Fool

Current Radio Shack antenna:
]]> DTV / HDTV Reception and Antenna Discussion mazeroth http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/13721-please-help-new-dad-get-right-antenna.html combining antennas http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/13687-combining-antennas.html Fri, 13 Nov 2009 00:06:29 GMT Hi. I have a general question that maybe you can answer independent of location. I'll post my tvfool a bit later when I have more time. Also when I can I'll go back and re-read hdprimer and other places that discuss joining antennas.

I have a 42xg, 4221hd, 4228hd and a cm7777. Under the right conditions I can get vhf 9, 11, and 13 on each of these. In one location (at 6' above grade right in front of the house) I can get pretty much everything I'm after with the 4228 but the location is unacceptable to the wife. My second best location, at least in terms of convenience (at ~28 feet on existing rooftop mast and easy access to 5 cables installed in walls when the house was built), I have several gaps (no usable signal) on both vhf and uhf: Multiple multipath factors present.

Again I'll post location and more details in a bit but in general is it a) possible and b) desirable to stack a combination of these antennas? Is gain cumulative or will they interfere with each other? Is it worth a try to see what happens? Can two uhf antennas be run through the cm7777 or do I need a joiner?

Thanks. ]]> DTV / HDTV Reception and Antenna Discussion pmr http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/13687-combining-antennas.html I Got a Spectrum Analyzer! http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/13623-i-got-spectrum-analyzer.html Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:48:40 GMT So, I am now the proud owner of a Sencore SLM1456CM spectrum analyzer. I absolutely love this unit.

http://www.sencore.com/uploads/files/SLM_1456CM.pdf

I have had a very hard time putting it down to do work. I plan to take a bunch of pictures and compile information. The space on my website where I plan to put it currently just has pictures of the signals here in Charlottesville as viewed from the VHF bowtie as it sits on my CRT monitor.

Sencore SLM1456CM

- Trip ]]> DTV / HDTV Reception and Antenna Discussion Trip http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/13623-i-got-spectrum-analyzer.html Best way to improve reception with my antenna? http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/13585-best-way-improve-reception-my-antenna.html Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:10:08 GMT Is there any other way to boost reception with my outdoor antenna? I lose a couple of local channels every once in a while and would like to fix it... Is there any other way to boost reception with my outdoor antenna? I lose a couple of local channels every once in a while and would like to fix it without buying another antenna. I have an old amp connected to the antenna that I'm thinking about replacing, but have no idea if it would actually help. ]]> DTV / HDTV Reception and Antenna Discussion BostonAvery http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/13585-best-way-improve-reception-my-antenna.html Losing Digital Channels http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/13430-losing-digital-channels.html Tue, 10 Nov 2009 02:30:24 GMT Has anyone else been experiencing problems with Channels 9.1 & 9.2 and 29.1 & 29.2 in the Minneapolis, Minn. area? I live about 15 miles north of the shoreview towers.

I was receiving all 4 of these up until late last week 11/6/2009. Now I cannot get 9.1 or 29.2. Channels 9.2 (SD) and 29.1 (HD) still come in fine. I have reset my Sanyo TV several times to no avail. I'm just wondering if they have changed the power output or is my TV heading south. Oh, I've also checked to make sure the channels didn't get inadvertently blocked. Nope, to the TV, they don't even exist.

Thanks for any help ]]> DTV / HDTV Reception and Antenna Discussion peloqt1 http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/13430-losing-digital-channels.html Digital TV reception http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/13361-digital-tv-reception.html Mon, 09 Nov 2009 15:11:19 GMT I live in Milo, IA 50166. I just installed a Winegard HD7082P antenna and HDP269 preamp as recommended in a forum when DTV took off. My signal... I live in Milo, IA 50166. I just installed a Winegard HD7082P antenna and
HDP269 preamp as recommended in a forum when DTV took off. My signal strength fluctuates between 55 and 86 and reception is sketchy at times.
1) Does coax length affect reception? 2) Do I need additional equipment to increase the signal?
Any and all assistance will be appreciated. ]]> DTV / HDTV Reception and Antenna Discussion willybillblue http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/13361-digital-tv-reception.html