Question: Antenna help in florida

thawk446

DTVUSA Rookie
#1
Need help picking the best bang for the buck antenna. It will be up about twenty feet high. Would like to get as many channels as possible while keeping it simple. Here is my tv fool report. Thanks Troy
TV Fool
 
#2
:welcome: Troy

In the interest of simplicity, I think you can ignore the stations at 23° and 35°:
W23CN is a retransmitter for WTOG which you can get at 304°
WHRT is analog "Heartland of Florida." Can't find much on it.
WOPX ION station, which you have on WXPX at 304°.

I think you can also ignore anything below NM=25 on the report:
WLZE is Univision (Spanish).
VHF channels 7, 10 and 11 are NBC, CBS and PBS which are triplicated with stronger stations higher on the chart.

So I don't think you need to worry about a VHF antenna either.

If I were you, I'd get two UHF antennas, one pointed at 211° magnetic and the other pointed at 310° magnetic. There's enough horsepower there, they can be combined with a reverse splitter, which simplifies your channel surfing. They don't need to be wide beam width antennas, so you can go for a high gain Yagi.

MrPogi has been testing out the tri-booms from Stellar Labs. Maybe he can tell you if two of those would be a good deal.
Stellar Labs HDTV 60 Mile Fringe Yagi Television Antenna | 30-2155 (302155) | Stellar Labs

Rick
 

Fringe Reception

Super Moderator, Chief Content Editor
Staff member
#3
Troy,

I agree with Ricki but if you use two antennas, be sure they are identical models. It is very hard if not impossible to combine non-matching 'same band' antennas.

Jim
 

MrPogi

Moderator, , Webmaster of Cache Free TV
Staff member
#5
The Stellar labs antenna would work here.

If you feel the need to get the VHF-hi channels 7,10, and 13 @ about 305 degrees, you might try pointing a Stellar Labs VHF/UHF HDTV 60 Mile Fringe Yagi Antenna | 30-2440 (302440) | Stellar Labs at 305 degrees. It is identical to the UHF tri-boom, but has a VHF element.

A bowtie does have a wider beam, but nowhere near as wide as you need. I think a two antenna solution is your best bet if ou want stations from both directions.
 
#6
If the antennas are aimed in different directions, it doesn't matter if the antennas are the same or not.

The OP can choose to receive only Ft Myers stations which are all UHF, Tampa-St Pete stations which are both high VHF and UHF, or he can try for both using either an A-B switch (will work but is inconvenient) or he can try to combine the two antennas to see if he can make a two-city combo.

I'd suggest a combo like the HBU33 or a 7694 aimed at TSP and a small, UHF-only Yagi aimed at Ft Myers. Since the stations are almost 90 degrees apart, you can take advantage of the antennas' natural nulls at 90° to weaken the signals from the "wrong" direction for each antenna. You can then experiment with a reversed splitter as a combiner to see if it works or if you need to stay with a switch.
 
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#7
Thanks for the advice. Would I be better off with something like this Bowtie 30-2430 so I wouldn't have to try to combine antennas? Troy
The 30-2430 contraption makes me nervous. There's a guy a couple miles from me who bought one that looks identical (Digiwave brand) and he wound up throwing it away. It's fine if you point both halves in the same direction. Then you basically have an 8 bay bow tie. The more you bend in the middle, the more likely you get less gain instead of more gain -- so you can subtract about 6dB from the spec sheet (which I honestly don't believe in the first place -- 19-25 dB?).

Add to that the multipath problem from the two halves being so close together. Conventional wisdom says they should be at least half, or (better) one full wave length apart. How do you do that with the 30-2430? And careful aiming is needed when you gang antennas. If the 30-2430 has a 60° beam width (not sure I buy that either), then each half must have 80° or more! How do you aim THAT?

So I'd stick with a narrow beam width Yagi, like maybe the tri-boom. That way, the stations for each antenna are in nulls for the other antenna, like Project said.

Two antennas combined with a splitter just makes perfect sense for your exact situation. The people at Solid Signal seem to think it's easy enough ... TIP: Combine two antennas for even better reception - The Solid Signal Blog
except I would try it first without an amplifier. Also, you can stack the two antennas vertically, if that's more convenient.

Any nearby obstructions, like buildings or trees, might work against the combining idea. But if combining doesn't work out, you can swap in an A/B switch or run two lines with one antenna going to a converter box. So the money won't be wasted.

Rick
 

Fringe Reception

Super Moderator, Chief Content Editor
Staff member
#8
ProjectSHO,

I have never had success combining same-band antennas with the one exception of a pair of first generation CM-4221's at a 'rural location' well away from the transmitters. Mis-matched antennas 'do not play well' with each other, in my (and most other installers' opinions).

Although based on Yagis, some of the theory and math (and rationalle) is here: Stacking TV Antennas

The resulting (potentially) received signals are well represented here: Stacking multiple antennas

In my opinion, if you try to combine mis-matched antennas, you are literally on your own and if it works, it is a miracle.

Jim
 
#9
Jim, both those articles apply to ganging antennas in one direction to increase gain. (The first paragraph in the second link applies to two antennas in different directions, but the rest of it is "How to combine antennas that point in the same direction" as per the title.)

Troy has two sets of stations 100° apart. I'm not sure the right word is even ganging in this case. He has enough juice coming from both directions that a 3 dB loss from the splitter shouldn't be a deal breaker, and cross talk, especially with a a narrow beam Yagi, should be minimal since they're in nulls to one another.

He can swap to an A/B switch if it doesn't work. I don't see any other option. A 4 bay without reflector wouldn't work at that angle. It would have to be an Omni antenna, and that would be much lower gain.

Rick
 
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#10
I don't see any other option.
OK, let me contradict myself right off the bat. Let me make it clear I am not recommending this antenna:
Omnidirectional TV Antenna

The inventor (a.k.a. the guy that stuck two loops together at a 90° angle) payed us a visit a couple weeks ago in this thread: http://www.dtvusaforum.com/antenna-r-d/54207-lost-channels-antenna.html#.U4v09HaKS3Y (Go to the last page and work backward.)

Can't recommend it, cause he never gave up any gain charts or sim data. But if it works, it could be a simple solution for Troy.

R.
 
#11
Here's a link on combining two antennas in different directions: Merging feedlines My point is, Troy doesn't have to worry about the "Ways to avoid the 3 dB combiner loss" since everything he needs is over 25 NM. The man says: "When the antennas point in different directions, the cable lengths are not critical in any way." If that's the case, I'm not sure why getting exactly the same antenna would be critical either.

Rick
 

MrPogi

Moderator, , Webmaster of Cache Free TV
Staff member
#12
Sometimes, things just work. It doesn't need be perfect, it just needs to work well enough for that particular situation.
 

thawk446

DTVUSA Rookie
#13
So I like the idea of one 302440 aimed at Tampa/St. Pete and one 302155 aimed at Ft. Myers but after reading all the post (Thanks for all your inputs) I'm worried they may not work together and should just get two 302440. I'm still learning so if I missed something let me know. Would something like the Winegard ms2002 be a good option? Thanks Troy
 
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#14
So I like the idea of one 302440 aimed at Tampa/St. Pete and one 302155 aimed at Ft. Myers but after reading all the post (Thanks for all your inputs) I'm worried they may not work together and should just get two 302440.
I would like to see you get the one 30-2440 and one 30-2155 just to show our Super Moderator that it makes no difference when the signals are coming from different directions. His location -- where he has to squeeze out every last dB to get "fringe reception" by ganging antennas in one direction -- is completely different from your situation. BUT, if you want to make him happy, get the two 30-2440's and make sure the coax between each antenna and splitter are exactly the same length.

Would something like the Winegard ms2002 be a good option?
The amplifier on an omni isn't going to make up for the lost gain. That would make nobody happy.

R.
 
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