Any hope for me?

ksnetv

DTVUSA Jr. Member
#1
I live in northwest Kansas and after lurking on this site for over a year I decided to come forth! I want to build an outdoor antenna setup but don't live real close to any transmitter towers. Here's my TV Fool.

At present I have in my possession a Winegard HD-8200U, a Channel Master 7777 preamp, and a Channel Master 9521A rotator. I also have a tower someone gave me, it will easily extend to 25 feet (I have a one-story house). I plan to use an Insignia converter box which will allow me to manually tune the RF channels should I desire. Once I have my tower up and secure I will get the correct length of coax from Denny's Antenna Service.

I know I won't get constant reception of maybe more than a couple of channels (RF 12 and 26). However I should still have some fun with tropo and sunrise/sunset. Any suggestions or comments?
 

Fringe Reception

Super Moderator, Chief Content Editor
Staff member
#2
:welcome: ksnetv,

You are located in a difficult location and my best suggestion is for you to rerun your TVFOOL report at higher elevations above ground to see if there is a significant change in potential signal strengths. Your 25 foot tower could (likely) be extended using steel masts. Also, there are telescopic tubular steel antenna masts available up to 50 feet.

Regarding RF-12, high-band VHF Yagi antennas are small compared to low-band VHF antennas and you might consider buying or building an antenna specifically for RF-12. In my albums here, you will find several home-brew antennas I have built including a 'cut-to-10' Yagi to receive my local channels 9 and 11.

Good luck, Jim
 

n2rj

Moderator
Staff member
#3
First of all, hello and welcome!

Secondly... yikes! Do you live in one of those "white spots" on the coverage maps?

Your assessment seems accurate, but all hope is not lost. You may very well be a candidate for higher gain antennas, or stacks. When are you planning on putting up the tower?

You might be surprised actually. My TV Fool is sorta similar:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=a362fa41e650ed

With the antenna at 70ft (on a tower) I get everything up to about -6dB noise margin. However I'm using 2xCM4228 and a winegard YA1713. Hope this helps as a guide.
 
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Chips

DTVUSA Member
#4
I live in northwest Kansas and after lurking on this site for over a year I decided to come forth! I want to build an outdoor antenna setup but don't live real close to any transmitter towers. Here's my TV Fool.
I envy your reception report on tvfool.com. But from my own experience, I would recommend that you also try the looking up your address on the map. In my the case the map feature is much different then the address model and the map address gives me the more accurate picture of the channels I can receive (and you can move the the dot on the map, I have to to get to my real location, it is off on the map and because of that the map page shows I get no channels), however if I were to post the results I only copy and paste the end results, because of privacy (there is a map of your exact location on the page). Here is my results via the map feature on tvfool.com and this accurate.
Callsign Chan Network Dist (mi) Path NM (dB)
WIVB-DT 39 (4.1) CBS 48.5 2Edge -8.7
WKBW-DT 38 (7.1) ABC 47.2 2Edge -10.7
WNYO-DT 49 MyN 50.3 2Edge -15.8
WGRZ-DT 33 (2.1) NBC 49.6 2Edge -16.6
I don't get WNYO 49, only sometimes.

Here is what it looks like from the address look up and this is completely off base.
TV Fool
Ch.65 has been off the air several years. I do get 4 Canadian stations, but none of the ones in this list, even when I had a VHF antenna mounted.
 

MrPogi

Moderator, , Webmaster of Cache Free TV
Staff member
#5
Are you planning on putting the tower on your roof? is 25 ft the height of the tower, or tower plus house?


Just for kicks, try your tvfool at 40 ft and see if it gets you out of the hole a bit.
 

n2rj

Moderator
Staff member
#6
Also don't take TV Fool as the bible... it's a good ballpark estimate but I found that it can be inaccurate for some stations. The only way to find out (unfortunately) for sure is to try.
 

Tower Guy

DTVUSA Member
#7
I live in northwest Kansas.

Any suggestions or comments?
I reran your report at 60'
TV Fool

The differences are minor. Unless the the extra height will help you clear trees it's not worth the effort.

The noise margin on channel 6 is too low. The low band NM on TVfool does not add any low band noise factor.

To pick up tropo more often you could try stacking four VHF high band antennas.
 

dkreichen1968

Moderator
Staff member
#9
We know better than to believe TVfool to be "the Bible" (and heck, can you really believe ALL of the Bible, literally??)
Depends on how you define "literal." But no, TVfool doesn't get everything right, it's just a generally accurate guide.

I did notice that not even 2 of his strongest stations are in the same direction! I hope he's planning on a rotor for that rig....
Or several antennas. In fact that may be the way to go. A Lo VHF antenna for channel 6 (ABC, and FOX dual 720p), a high VHF yagi for 12 (KSNK for NBC), and a UHF antenna for KLNE (Nebraska educational TV HD, NET2, and Create). (Six total channels.) Actually you could use a Hi/Low VHF joiner seperator for the two VHF antennas and the seperated inputs on the Channel Master amp and hook them all into the same line.

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...Low-Antenna-SeparatorCombiner-(HLSJ)&c=Signal Splitters&sku=

Channel 6 will be the tough one.

My antenna recommends are below:

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...00-10-El.-HiBand-VHF-TV-Antenna-(YA1713)&c=TV Antennas&sku=615798304867

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...022-Prostar-1000-UHF-TV-Antenna-(HD9022)&c=TV Antennas&sku=

Then you could use the Winegard HD-8200U to get channel 6 (if you can get it) since it has 6.4 dB of gain. Put up the Winegard, see what you can get, then add antennas if you want to be able to channel surf without running the rotor. You certainly don't need a rotor, unless that is the way you choose to go, since each channel is on its own band.
 
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ksnetv

DTVUSA Jr. Member
#11
Thanks for all the comments, guys. To answer some of the questions:

1) 25 feet is the height of the tower from the ground. She Who Must Be Obeyed already told me I can't do guy wires. I got the tower from a local ham who has a lot of good equipment lying around. The same fellow also warned me about wind load, which is another reason I can't go real high. As some of you noted, additional height at my location might not help too much. I plan to anchor the tower to the ground, then secure it further with a bracket connected to the trim of my house.

2) Yes, I plan to use a rotor. (I called it a rotator in my original post, guess that's the wrong word.)

3) Chips, you envy my reception report? Because it's a challenge?? I can't imagine why anyone would like my location.

4) The adding additional antennas concept is interesting, I'll certainly keep this in mind. Only limited by $$$$$$ and space on the tower.
 

Fringe Reception

Super Moderator, Chief Content Editor
Staff member
#12
ksnetv,

The terms rotator and rotor are pretty much interchangable: I'm an old fart, so I usually use the variation I learned in the 60s: rotor ... LOL.

What's the chance of forgetting the ground-based tower and putting a mast on your roof, assuming the result would be higher. Would "She" object to guy wires away from "Her" yard and allow them on your roof?

I use wall brackets on a 30' telescopic mast, soon to be replaced by a 40' mast. In my photo albums here on the Forum there is a shot of an installation I did last summer for a customer 30 miles south of me using a Radio Shack chimney mount and 15' of mast: the photo was taken before guy wires were added to complete the project and the total height above ground is 2 1/2 stories plus 15 feet ... close to 40 feet.

Jim
 

Chips

DTVUSA Member
#13
Thanks for all the comments, guys. To answer some of the questions:

3) Chips, you envy my reception report? Because it's a challenge?? I can't imagine why anyone would like my location. .
As already mention in the other post, you will find out what you get when you hang your antenna, I hope you good success. However I envy your reception because it looks better then my report. TV Fool
On the TV Fool home page they give you two options, 1. looking up your address and 2. looking up your address on a map, and with my address I get two different results, which makes me think that each look-up uses different models. It is worth looking at both models, the map model in my case is on the mark. But it is a lot more fun hanging the antenna and finding out what is really there. I hope when you hang the antenna you will let us know what you get.
 
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