Attention TV Viewers: DTV signals are weaker than analog signals...

Byte24

DTVUSA Member
#1
A nervous FCC announces game plan for new DTV day

Attention full power TV stations: the FCC says that you must notify viewers if your digital TV signal will reach fewer homes than the analog signal did.
Thought this was an interesting story, the FCC is telling TV stations that they must inform people that analog signals are weaker the digital signals.

A nervous FCC announces game plan for new DTV day - Ars Technica
 

bicker

DTVUSA Member
#2
You misread the article.
... full power television stations making the digital jump and expecting to lose two percent or more of the population in their old analog reception range must broadcast news about the signal loss.
That provision applies to roughly 11% of television stations -- that being the number of television stations that are losing audience. 89% of television stations will actually gain audience because their digital broadcasts will be stronger than their analog broadcasts. (This is actually referenced later in the article, and they even provided a link to the report from last December showing this -- you should read the whole article before crafting a title for a thread about an article, next time.)
 

john_bud

DTVUSA Jr. Member
#4
Yeah the new DTV signal is so strong I had to spend over 500 on new antenna, rotator, taller stand stand, booster, splitters and boxes and have lost 30% of the stations that I used to get.

Super....:(

jb
 
#5
It's just like satellite. anything moving in front of, or any shaking of, the antenna and BOOM! no signal.

That's why i cancelled Dish Network (they never could get it right) and then i had to get this. but i still can't complain, at least i'm not paying over $30/mo for a crappy signal!
 

1inxs

DTVUSA Member
#7
I also think the article is relying too much on the statistics reported by the FCC. I believe the coverage will be much broader despite the FCC report. You can go to tvfool, antennaweb or any other website that uses the FCC information and it shows me in an area without coverage post transition. This is absolutely false. We have excellent quality DTV here in Kamas, Utah. These websites compile FCC information to recommend antennas and antenna orientation. The FCC still shows Summit County, Utah as receiving analog signal from Farnsworth Peak on the Oaker Mountains 48 miles from my house. This information is incorrect. I'm sure my area is just one of many included in the report as needing to be informed. I think the FCC needs to be informed.
 
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U

Unregistered

Guest
#8
unhappy with digital signal.

I had to hook up my converter box to my dtv because my sateliite is not working. I thought this new digital siginal was advertized to be so much better than analog when in in my experence i cant even pick up a good signal on my cbs, or pbs stations.I am very unhappy! I guess we are seeing that analog was much better than digital.
 

MrPogi

Moderator, , Webmaster of Cache Free TV
Staff member
#9
I had to hook up my converter box to my dtv because my sateliite is not working. I thought this new digital siginal was advertized to be so much better than analog when in in my experence i cant even pick up a good signal on my cbs, or pbs stations.I am very unhappy! I guess we are seeing that analog was much better than digital.
And what antenna were you using? If you can you go to TV Fool fill in your details and post the results back here, we can help you out.

For most people, Digital is better, but it's all or nothing, perfect picture or blank screen. With analog, you could still watch a channel with a weak signal. Digital HD picture quality with an antenna is superior to satellite or cable. And you get LOTS more channels now because of digital sub channels. Before, with analog, you got maybe 10 channels, and now you may get 30.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
#10
And what antenna were you using? If you can you go to TV Fool fill in your details and post the results back here, we can help you out.

For most people, Digital is better, but it's all or nothing, perfect picture or blank screen. With analog, you could still watch a channel with a weak signal. Digital HD picture quality with an antenna is superior to satellite or cable. And you get LOTS more channels now because of digital sub channels. Before, with analog, you got maybe 10 channels, and now you may get 30.
Phillips dtv indoor antenna, There is no excuse for not being able to recieve one of the basic over the air stations, i finally gave up on receiving any cbs stations and had trouble keeping a pbs station. What good is the better quality if fewer people are able to see it, a standard picture is better than no picture. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
 

dkreichen1968

Moderator
Staff member
#11
Without your TV Fool report we can't help you. If you would like help, please fill out your TV Fool report and post the URL for the "radar plot." There are lots of reasons why you may not be getting your CBS and PBS stations, which has nothing to do with digital, but we can't tell without your TV Fool. Philip's indoor antenna? What model? What direction is it pointed? Where are your DTV stations? What frequencies do they broadcast on? How close are you to the broadcast towers? Depending on location and antenna DTV stations can be received out to 100 miles. Most of mine are at 48 miles.
 

MrPogi

Moderator, , Webmaster of Cache Free TV
Staff member
#12
Phillips dtv indoor antenna, There is no excuse for not being able to recieve one of the basic over the air stations, i finally gave up on receiving any cbs stations and had trouble keeping a pbs station. What good is the better quality if fewer people are able to see it, a standard picture is better than no picture. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Like Dan said, you need to go to TVfool (TV Fool) and give your information, and post your results. There are PLENTY of reasons ("excuses") why you wouldn't get a station. You are expecting Digital TV to work like analog did, and that's not how it works, my friend. It's not unlike getting a satellite receiver, setting up the dish without help in your living room, and complaining that satellite TV is bad. That's why Dish sends an installer to your home to set it up - because you pay them for it.

OTA TV is free, but there is no installer coming to your home, no "Tech Support" number to call. At DTV USA Forum, WE ARE YOUR TECH SUPPORT STAFF, and we do it for free! Posting your complaint and not letting us help you would be like calling Dish Network tech support and saying "IT DOESN'T WORK!" - and hanging up. You may feel better, but it won't get you a picture on your TV.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
#13
Like Dan said, you need to go to TVfool (TV Fool) and give your information, and post your results. There are PLENTY of reasons ("excuses") why you wouldn't get a station. You are expecting Digital TV to work like analog did, and that's not how it works, my friend. It's not unlike getting a satellite receiver, setting up the dish without help in your living room, and complaining that satellite TV is bad. That's why Dish sends an installer to your home to set it up - because you pay them for it.

OTA TV is free, but there is no installer coming to your home, no "Tech Support" number to call. At DTV USA Forum, WE ARE YOUR TECH SUPPORT STAFF, and we do it for free! Posting your complaint and not letting us help you would be like calling Dish Network tech support and saying "IT DOESN'T WORK!" - and hanging up. You may feel better, but it won't get you a picture on your TV.
TV Fool
 

dkreichen1968

Moderator
Staff member
#14
Your TV stations are coming from the north and northeast. That means that for the best reception your antenna will work best near a north facing window. If you don't have a north facing window (or don't have one where your TV is located) place the antenna in an area with the least number of obstructions in that direction. Your ABC and CBS stations are on VHF channel (RF10 &12) and need an antenna with long elements (such as rabbit ears) on it for the best chance at good reception. The elements (loop and/or "ears") need to be placed perpendicular to the direction that the signals are coming from.

Is the antenna your using like this? Philips SDV1125T - HDTV / TV / radio antenna - Indoor
 
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Aerial

DTVUSA Member
#15
The truth is Digital television transmissions are stronger and more robust then analog and will transmit futher with less power then analog.
 
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MrPogi

Moderator, , Webmaster of Cache Free TV
Staff member
#16
unregistered guest:
Try this antenna, Winegard FV-HD30 FreeVision HDTV Antenna pointed at about 45 degrees magnetic (NNE). This is an outdoor antenna, but it works well indoors hanging on a wall.

If you're in a building made of stucco or have any metal obstructions NNE, you may want to put your antenna outside. Indoors, put it in a north facing window or on a north wall, and place it at least 10 feet from your TV and electronics - especially your computer. Computers create a lot of TV interference.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
#17
Your TV stations are coming from the north and northeast. That means that for the best reception your antenna will work best near a north facing window. If you don't have a north facing window (or don't have one where your TV is located) place the antenna in an area with the least number of obstructions in that direction. Your ABC and CBS stations are on VHF channel (RF10 &12) and need an antenna with long elements (such as rabbit ears) on it for the best chance at good reception. The elements (loop and/or "ears") need to be placed perpendicular to the direction that the signals are coming from.

Is the antenna your using like this? Philips SDV1125T - HDTV / TV / radio antenna - Indoor
yes it is.
 
#19
I do wonder why my local CBS station went from broadcasting with 316,000 watts of power to 14,800 watts.

I especially wonder why my local Fox station went from broadcasting with 1 megawatt of power to less than a kilowatt.

It sounds like someone is selling out somehow!
 

nbound-au

The Graveyard Shift
#20
Im assumig there is a similar story that makes up part of the discrepancy as there, as there is here.

For equivalent coverage of analog and digital, you can get away with roughly 1/4 the ERP on digital.

VHF channels only require 1/4 the ERP of an equivalent UHF channel on the bottom end of the UHF band.

Your local Fox station (KFJX) broadcasts at 5.6kW ERP.

Thats equivalent to 22.4kW on its old channel number (UHF14), and 89.6kW if the same rule holds true for NTSC/ATSC

So yes, some stations have gotten weaker, some even by a big margin, but perhaps its not all as it seems.



Broadcasters here are required (and checked by the relevant govt. authority) to maintain equivalent or better coverage during the digital switchover. This is roughly the pattern that emerges from the our channel plans as far as ERP goes.

An example:

SBS28 Sydney (PAL analog) - 850kW ERP
SBS34 Sydney (DVB-T) - 200kW ERP
SBS7 Sydney (Post-restack allocation) - 50kW ERP

So while it looks much weaker, due to the digital switchover and restack, its basically the same signal as before.
 
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