Broadband threat to ota over?

Tim58hsv

DTVUSA Member
#1
Looks that way from some of the recent headlines and articles at the tvnewscheck website. Seems that some of the powers that be have had a change of heart, at least for now. Wonder if those NAB psa's helped change their minds?

Couple of the recent headlines from tvnewscheck...

Benjamin: FCC Won't Force TV Off Air

Bellaria: FCC Doesn't Want TV's Spectrum

Link to those and many other articles at...

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/sections/cashspectum/
 

Don_M

DTVUSA Member
#2
So they say. It's of the utmost importance to watch what they do -- all of them -- particularly when they start thinking you, me and everyone else may have forgotten all about this lead... sorry, trial balloon of theirs.
 

Fringe Reception

Super Moderator, Chief Content Editor
Staff member
#3
I think Don is spot-on. We all need to be watchdogs. In the intro of the article this was said:

... "prefacing most of his remarks with the disclaimer that they were his comments, not the FCC's."

later:

"Benjamin told C-SPAN his spectrum views are his own, and he drew a distinction between them and the commission."
 

bicker

DTVUSA Member
#4
I think the whole thing is funny because no one ever seriously suggested the draconian changes that some folks got all up-in-arms about. Essentially, it seems to me that critics of broadcasters mustered up fear, uncertainty and doubt, and then "fought" against the danger that they themselves fabricated, perhaps to gain some credits with the public.
 

FOX TV

Contributor
#5
I think the whole thing is funny because no one ever seriously suggested the draconian changes that some folks got all up-in-arms about. Essentially, it seems to me that critics of broadcasters mustered up fear, uncertainty and doubt, and then "fought" against the danger that they themselves fabricated, perhaps to gain some credits with the public.
Where do you get your information? That, simply is not true, and I will post an article to prove it from a very well known source in the TV Broadcast industry with quotes from some of the big players, and their thoughts on how to go about "Stealing" the DTV spectrum for BIG PROFITS.This will be to the extreme detriment of the American Public, and its ability to maintain an Emergency Communications and Notifying system for the American Public.

The broadband industry is trying to get 800 mHz of additional space, and is even eying unused spectrum now held by the Pentagon of all things. Face book, My space, and Twitter tweets (That sounds sooo juvenile) should NEVER be more important than the emergency communications needs of our nation and its people.

Profit should NEVER override common sense or basic needs, but in today's world, greed has infected the capitalist system, and it is running rampantly out of control. Look at the banking bonuses as an example. That's just plain old arrogance on their part, and the current administration is complacent in its duties to the American people for letting this greed fest continue. This is the thanks the American people get for the bailouts.

Don't you find it ironic that we are going to bankrupt this country over health care for about 14 to 20 million people, but the Emergency communications needs of about this same amount of people is not considered important enough in the battle to keep a public resource (The radio Spectrum itself is Designated as a Public Resource as outlined by the laws of this nation) available for its intended use?

Why should broadcasters who have invested heavily in broadcasting in the "Public's Interest", along with the digital transition, have to bow out and yield to a technology that is driven as much by fads such as " twitter tweets", as it is by real necessity? FOLLOW THE MONEY !! You are just plain wrong on this !!
 
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bicker

DTVUSA Member
#6
Where do you get your information?
Where do you get yours?

That, simply is not true, and I will post an article to prove it from a very well known source in the TV Broadcast industry with quotes from some of the big players, and their thoughts on how to go about "Stealing" the DTV spectrum for BIG PROFITS.
Post away... I'll have a good time discrediting the assertion that anyone actually suggested the draconian changes that some folks got all up-in-arms about.

Like with so many political concerns, people hear something, but then argue against something easier to argue against, in this case, changes to the system that were more draconian than what was actually suggested. And what is even more shocking is that the folks who are behind such FUD often have no shame about their deception. For them, it is all about manipulating public perception so that they get as much of what they want as possible. Meanwhile, those in government and business are constrained to being honest and factual about what their critics say, because unlike critics, government officials and business managers are held accountable for what they put into the public space.

This will be to the extreme detriment of the American Public, and its ability to maintain an Emergency Communications and Notifying system for the American Public.
Bull. You don't like the idea of broadcasters giving up or losing any portion of the currently-allocated spectrum. That's clear. So here you are taking that prospect, of losing a portion of the currently-allocated spectrum, and distorting that into such doom-and-gloom.

And you've chosen such a weak argument: The entirety of the need for broadcast emergency communications can be fully satisfied with a very small percentage of the currently-allocated spectrum. When there is an emergency in my area, I bet you dollars to donuts that WWDP on Channel 46.1 will still be broadcasting home shopping. Loss of that channel, for example, would not be "to the extreme detriment of the American Public". Shop NBC has nothing to do with "the emergency communications needs of our nation and its people".

So right there, your outrageously categorical FUD is discredited.

Profit should NEVER override common sense or basic needs
Raving hyperbole should never override common sense or progress.

Don't you find it ironic that we are going to bankrupt this country over health care for about 14 to 20 million people, but the Emergency communications needs of about this same amount of people is not considered important enough in the battle to keep a public resource
So now you're placing Desperate Housewives and Shop NBC over health care. Sorry, friend: No sale. Again, you're positing a losing argument. The needs for emergency communications can be accomplished very well with a lot less allocated bandwidth. Like it or not, and as someone who makes your living in the industry, I understand why you don't like it.

(The radio Spectrum itself is Designated as a Public Resource as outlined by the laws of this nation) available for its intended use?
Explain Desperate Housewives. Explain Shop NBC.

You are just plain wrong on this !!
No, son, I'm not. With respect, I think your perspective is simply a reflection of your own personal interests, whereas I'm thinking about the entirety of our society, and its future.
 

Aaron62

Contributor
Staff member
#7
No, son, I'm not. With respect, I think your perspective is simply a reflection of your own personal interests, whereas I'm thinking about the entirety of our society, and its future.
:popcorn: hehe

You guys have two very differing perspectives on this. I'm just not a fan of dividing the spectrum for profit at the loss to broadcasters.
 

bicker

DTVUSA Member
#8
There is no question that viewers will lose out if some more bandwidth is reallocated, but viewer priorities is not the the totality of American priorities.
 

FOX TV

Contributor
#9
14 to 20 million people

There is no question that viewers will lose out if some more bandwidth is reallocated, but viewer priorities is not the the totality of American priorities.
So you throw away 14 to 20 million people who simply cannot afford pay tv? Then why is the current administration bankrupting this country with huge health care proposals for that same amount of people? I guess now the taxpayer will have to pay for their TV too? How about making the "Broadband Thieves" pay for it?
 
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FOX TV

Contributor
#10
Where do you get yours?.

I don't know, or care where you get your information, because it is completely wrong, and they seem more like opinions than pure facts. I get my information as an industry insider from some very knowledgeable and dependable sources. My employment in the Broadcast Engineering Department of a Class A full power TV station requires me to keep up with FCC and Congressional rulings that affect broadcasting.

In addition, as an employee of that same TV station, I have access to information from our own Specialized Broadcast Law Firm who is retained just for that purpose. The station is also a member of our State association of Broadcasters, who have their own legal staff, along with being a member of the National Association of Broadcasters who also have their own legal team, in addition to updates from MSTV ( MSTV - Association For Maximum Service Television ) and ( MSTV:Law & Regulation ) who also have their own (Guess What...) legal team. All of this legal power is devoted exclusively to keeping broadcasters informed of Washington DC issues that affect them.

In addition to that, we receive numerous industry trade publications who also keep up with trends and regulations in the industry, and I read all of them that I can. We get updates almost on a daily basis via e-mail from one or the other of those sources. Would you like me to forward some of them to you via e-mail? That way, you can see for yourself what is really going on behind the scenes, because it is obvious you have no clue; only opinions.

Every sentence I read of your reply just respectfully reaffirms to me how little you really know about this issue. All you want to do is "Bicker" about any topic based on your obviously misinformed point of view without looking at the facts. I do respect your point of view though, even if it is misconstrued, completely false and just plain wrong.

I do also believe I am much older and wiser than you, so in future posts, I respectfully ask you to refrain from referring to me as "son", because I am old enough to be your Father, and based on that fact alone, I view it as slightly disrespectful, and you should always respect your elders.

"And what is even more shocking is that the folks who are behind such FUD often have no shame about their deception. For them, it is all about manipulating public perception so that they get as much of what they want as possible", which is exactly the same game the spectrum thieves are playing right now.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Below are some recent quotes from Industry Insiders (They actually work in the industry, all the live long day...)


WASHINGTON DC

"It's clear that they're gunning to shut down broadcasting," said Mark Aitken of Sinclair Broadcasting, the day after Federal Communications Commission Chairman Julius Genachowski appointed a special advisor to evaluate how broadcast TV spectrum should be reallocated."

"Perry Sook, chairman/president/CEO of Nexstar Broadcasting Group, is even more adamant about the so-called "spectrum grab." Citing the "unfunded Federal mandate" under which broadcasters spent $15 billion for the digital TV transition, Sook rattles off a roster of reasons why the FCC's dream for redistributing TV spectrum makes no sense."

NAB President Gordon Smith testifies at a House Subcommittee hearing on spectrum use last month. "Downconverting our spectrum to allow only a single standard definition channel would constitute one of the largest bait and switch schemes on consumers in the history of our country!"

Sook said, inserting his own exclamation mark. "I don't know that there is a public interest mandate for Apple," he said. "Compare that to the public service and educational requirements placed on broadcasters for our use of the spectrum."

The spectrum allocation tinderbox was lit by a Consumer Electronics Association-funded study, released in late October, which suggested that $1 trillion of broadband services (FOLLOW THE MONEY !!) could be generated from the 300 MHz of spectrum used by TV broadcasters. The CEA study suggested that the broadcast bandwidth is now worth about $62 billion, (FOLLOW THE MONEY !!) and it included a proposal for carving out swaths of TV spectrum for other uses: mostly ones for wireless/mobile broadband applications. (FOLLOW THE MONEY !!)

Shortly afterwards, CEA and CTIA: The Wireless Association (formerly known as the Cellular Telephone Association) asked the FCC to examine reallocation of broadcast spectrum to prepare for the "looming spectrum crisis." They cited Congress's directive that the FCC must conduct an inventory of all available spectrum with recommendations for greater efficiency.

QUOTES END HERE !!
_________________________________________________________


AH HA...The CEA and CTIA: The Wireless Association (formerly known as the Cellular Telephone Association)> Now we can get to brass tax here. In case memories of the last year of the " Great and historic Digital TV transition" are already fading, this "Association" is the very same entity that was tasked with promoting the Digital TV transition, and they had an agenda when doing so.

Does anyone smell a skunk here? If you are having reception issues, you should smell one, as they are the ones who spent millions of our tax dollars to deliberately mislead the public about the reality's of Digital TV reception when Engineers everywhere wondered "Just who are these idiots who are promoting rabbit ears and indoor antennas?"

The FCC did all of the testing for DTV with antennas elevated at 30 feet above ground, as was the standard for analog testing also. This was done this way because Broadcast TV signals did not become "Magic" just because they carried digital data and could suddenly be received on a set of "MAGIC RABBIT EARS".

Digital TV Signals still have to obey natures electromagnetic laws of propagation, along with a new Gremiln thrown in called multi path. If you had crappy analog reception in general. just wait till you find out you will have "NO RECEPTION" with a set of the "MAGIC RABBIT EARS", along with a "WONDERFUL NEW TAX PAYER PAID FOR CONVERTER BOX"

At the original proposed power levels, Engineers everywhere knew that indoor antennas would not work well for reliable reception, and again ask ourselves "Just who are these idiots who are promoting rabbit ears and indoor antennas?"

All of this data was known about during the development of the 8-vsb modulation method that DTV uses. If one were to subscribe to the concept of conspiracies, so could it not be all that hard to believe that HDTV, was intentionally crippled by the powers that be? Why was the testing done with antennas at 30 feet, and then indoor antennas promoted heavily? There are many industry insiders who subscribe to this "Myth".

DTV and HDTV is a great concept, whos quality rivals that of Cable or Satellite, with a tribute to the developers of DTV, as they did a great job of developing a very god "High Tech" product, who's future potential my never be realized if the "Greed Barron's" of the broadband industry get their way.

It is a fact of life that the people who depend on Broadcast the most are mostly less fortunate than others. They simply cannot afford high speed internet, pay TV, satellite TV etc. Are you in favor of throwing their well being and urgent need for real emergency communications aside in a time of need for the sake of big profits, Face Book, My Space, and Twitter of all things?

These concepts are only a fad and a non necessity. They are not a matter of someones well being. The earth quake can hit us here, and where would your all broadband world be? They are the new kid on the block regarding spectrum use, and they and you have a lot to learn about sharing a "PUBLIC RESOURCE"

DTV works well in places where there is adequate signal and reception conditions. It is still subject to natures laws and rules, and no amount of misleading the public will ever change that. The engineers already knew this, but the politicians did not care.

Your arguments make no sense, especially the ones regarding programming. Is everything on sat or cable quality programming? Is texting, face book and TWITTER really a good use of valuable "publicly owned radio spectrum", especially since it uses a "PUBLIC RESOURCE" to transact its business. Where is the payback to the public for the use of their spectrum?

TV Broadcastings is a public service that is mandated by federal law to broadcast in the publics interest simply for emergency communications to the masses in times of local or national emergencies This has always been the focus of TV broadcasting in the first place "THE PUBLIC OWNS THE SPECTRUM", not the broadband industry or the Federal Government.

It seems to me that your opinions are in conflict with the spirit of what this forum is here to do, and that is to help as many as possible discover brave new world of Digital HDTV broadcasting, instead of tossing it aside before all of the BILLIONS IN loans that bought the mandated transmitters and antennas are paid in full !

Its easy to Nit Pick someones post by a sentence here and a quote there. How about writing a complete OP ED giving your oppositionists opinion, instead of conveniently nit picking mine with incoherent opinions that neither flow, nor make any sense, and are based more on fiction and personal opinion, than true and actual facts.

In ending, I must say that I LOVE steak and Hamburger and Beef Stew, and.....
 
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FOX TV

Contributor
#11
Lets hope so..

Looks that way from some of the recent headlines and articles at the tvnewscheck website. Seems that some of the powers that be have had a change of heart, at least for now. Wonder if those NAB psa's helped change their minds?

Couple of the recent headlines from tvnewscheck...

Benjamin: FCC Won't Force TV Off Air

Bellaria: FCC Doesn't Want TV's Spectrum

Link to those and many other articles at...

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/sections/cashspectum/


Let's all hope its not Smoke, Mirrors, Lies and Deception for now. Do you think we actually have an honest administration "RULING" this country right now? If they had a plan to save it, why aren't they saying so, or giving some idea of what they have in mind. I really don't think any forum users except for a few contributors on here keep up with this topic as closely as I do.

I just have such a wealth of resources of accurate industry information, its hard to ignore it when I work in the industry, and have been an Amateur Radio Operator for over half of my life, in addition to actually participating in the "CB" craze of the late 1970's.

I had a car, and why not put in a CB and see what all of the fuss was about? Being a poor boy, I learned how to "Tune" my own CB antenna. I actually went out and bought an "VSWR" meter and learned to tune antennas.

Since I had a "VSWR" meter, I got a lot of practice tuning antennas and making qality PL-259 connectors for CB friends, and actually made a few dollars doing it. That aspect alone, along with my secret late night hobby of AM DX on an AM only transistor radio got me to study radio and get my Ham ticket, and on and on....

I have been into radio a long time, both as a hobby and a profession, and this is personal to me for all of those reasons. I am not going to get on here and lead you in any direction because of my opinions, as that is yours to make up. I will state facts that are relevant from industry sources when appropriate, and do not expose any proprietary information, and of course, express my opinion.

I have been into radio a long time. I have subscribed to Popular Communications Magazine since 1986 or so. I still have every copy, and I still own scanners that they now feature in an "Antique" scanner column on occasion.

I have seen many radio related changes, and DTV is an amazing one that looks like it will be now be handicapped before all of its possible uses can be realized."Just a newborn barely out of the womb, and they want to perform an abortion on it before it grows any more popular"
 

Tim58hsv

DTVUSA Member
#12
I think the whole thing is funny because no one ever seriously suggested the draconian changes that some folks got all up-in-arms about.
Looks like a certain troll needs to do a little more research on the subject before spewing out his opinions. 'Course if he did he wouldn't be a troll and that would be counter productive for him.
 

bicker

DTVUSA Member
#13
So you throw away 14 to 20 million people who simply cannot afford pay tv?
More ridiculous, self-serving nonsense. No one said anything about throwing away anyone.

At this point, your distortion is so gross and so clearly deliberate that it constitutes deception. Stop it.

Then why is the current administration bankrupting this country with huge health care proposals for that same amount of people?
First, I think you are assuming that this is a discussion about the health care bill, and/or that anyone here is supporting the health care bill as it is currently written. If I'm going to debate health care, I won't do so on a television-related forum. So your attempt to cast an argument based on health care is without merit, since you're effectively arguing with yourself, since you're the only one who is putting the health care bill forward.

Second, since you've been so deceptive, I'll engage in some of my own (except, being the honorable guy I am, I'm actually labeling it as such): So you consider Desperate Housewives more important than saving babies' lives?

I guess now the taxpayer will have to pay for their TV too?
Again with the ridiculous, self-serving nonsense. No one said anything about taxpayers having to pay for television. Stop engaging in deception.
 

bicker

DTVUSA Member
#14
I get my information as an industry insider from some very knowledgeable and dependable sources.
I don't believe you just because you tell me to. :rolleyes: Your information is radically biased and inaccurate at times. It displays a tilt against business and in favor of the status quo.

My employment in the Broadcast Engineering Department of a Class A full power TV station requires me to keep up with FCC and Congressional rulings that affect broadcasting.
Stop avoiding the issue: Provide proof of what you claimed before, that proposals were made by legitimate entities to do away with broadcast television entirely. Put up or shut up.

In addition, as an employee of that same TV station, I have access to information from our own Specialized Broadcast Law Firm who is retained just for that purpose.
The purpose of supporting your own employers best personal interests in the political arena.

Every sentence I read of your reply just respectfully reaffirms to me how little you really know about this issue.
So far, all I've done is called you out on the "fear, uncertainty and doubt" you've put out. I haven't said that anyone has said anything -- YOU did. You're frustrated, because you effectively lied before, and I caught you, and so you're trying to refute what I've said but you can't... and so you're trying to argue against things I haven't said.

All you want to do is "Bicker" about any topic based on your obviously misinformed point of view without looking at the facts.
You haven't provided facts. You've provided "fear, uncertainty and doubt". No one deserves an unchallenged soap-box to put forward "fear, uncertainty and doubt". Get over it.

I do respect your point of view though, even if it is misconstrued, completely false and just plain wrong.
See above, i.e., "Put up or shut up."

I do also believe I am much older and wiser than you, so in future posts, I respectfully ask you to refrain from referring to me as "son", because I am old enough to be your Father, and based on that fact alone, I view it as slightly disrespectful, and you should always respect your elders.
Ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. I'm sorry I called you son, but I'm pretty confident, based on the manner in which you engage in rhetoric, that you're a product of a younger generation than mine.

which is exactly the same game the spectrum thieves are playing right now.
At least you admit that you're playing a game.

Below are some recent quotes from Industry Insiders (They actually work in the industry, all the live long day...)

"It's clear that they're gunning to shut down broadcasting,"
So your whole argument is based on what some people claim other people are thinking. How incredibly inane. You don't have any first-hand knowledge, and not even any second-hand knowledge.

Thank you for providing such a great example of the despicable practice of deception by "fear, uncertainty and doubt". As I thought, you've got no proof of anything you've put forward. You're just blowing smoke, and hoping that the other people biased towards the viewer-myopic perspective will just believe you without thinking critically about what you're trying to say. So not only are you disrespecting the truth, but you're disrespecting even the people who are generally inclined to believe you.
 
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bicker

DTVUSA Member
#15
Looks like a certain troll needs to do a little more research on the subject before spewing out his opinions. 'Course if he did he wouldn't be a troll and that would be counter productive for him.
You've been snowed. FoxTV is the troll, here, trying to trick you into believing something other than the truth. Pretty sad that you allowed yourself to be deceived.
 

FOX TV

Contributor
#16
Legend

You've been snowed. FoxTV is the troll, here, trying to trick you into believing something other than the truth. Pretty sad that you allowed yourself to be deceived.
What is really sad is how blind and uninformed you really are. Here I post actual and true statements from industry insiders and watchdogs, and you still insist on showing how stubborn you are based on uninformed opinions, when I have clearly won this debate by using true facts based on early returns.

And you still insist on nit picking my post, instead of actually writing a coherent document based on true facts instead that only illustrate your "Misdirected and uninformed personal opinions".

I am clearly right on this issue, and you are clearly uninformed, and wrong. It is obvious that you cannot see the forest for the trees, but I am not here to insult your intelligence, because you do a good job of that yourself, and it is clear that you are stuck in your own uninformed world in your own mind, and even when presented with real and true facts, you are still blind. I am only pointing out how blind you are to the truth.

I have clearly won this "Debate", and you are a sore loser, who will never be able to see past that "Legend that you are in your own mind". Legends are ok if you never want to contribute anything of real substance to this forum, or to your own enrichment.

HA HA HA, I have clearly won, and you have clearly lost.... lets take a poll and see what other forum users think about this "Exchange of information", and who's opinions they actually believe. It is also pretty sad that you are so closed minded, but that is what happens when ones vision of themselves is only "A legend in THEIR own mind".

No personal offense intended, but your opinions mean very little to me except for a good laugh once in a while. You have the right to continue being a "Sheeple", so rock on all you "Sheeple" out there, and let your that "legend in your own mind" rule your closed minded world, while the real world passes you by. You never have revealed where you get your information from, and that's because it is all fantasy !!

"So your whole argument is based on what some people claim other people are thinking. How incredibly inane. You don't have any first-hand knowledge, and not even any second-hand knowledge.

No, my information was presented as quotes directly from the person who spoke them, and all of your word twisting does not change that fact.

Thank you for providing such a great example of the despicable practice of deception by "fear, uncertainty and doubt". As I thought, you've got no proof of anything you've put forward. You're just blowing smoke, and hoping that the other people biased towards the viewer-myopic perspective will just believe you without thinking critically about what you're trying to say. So not only are you disrespecting the truth, but you're disrespecting even the people who are generally inclined to believe you.

Thinking critically about what you're trying to say, is obviously a skill that you do no have !! Not only are you disrespecting yourself, you are also disrespecting that "Legend in your own mind" by keeping on feeding it untruths and falsehoods.

And you are just spouting out uninformed and misguided "PERSONAL OPINIONS", instead of basing one single sentence on any type of real fact.

You can't even answer real questions when asked. I asked you several times why do you think the nations current "Rullers" are trying to break this country on health care for 14 to 20 million people, but they are not important enough to be counted in the bandwidth battle, but of course that is a complicated but true statement that you conveniently choose to avoid.

Typical closed minded legend attitude. I am only responding to your uniformed logic to add a little "Controversy" to the forum, as it is obvious you do not have a clue as to the truth, and that "legend in your own mind' obviously controls your very small and uniformed world. How about getting out of that 'legends' frame of mind, and occasionally peek outside your closed minded world and have a look at the "Real World" for a change.

I would just normally come right out and call you an appropriate name as you did me, but it is so obvious that it would be disrespectful to actually point that out in public and insult everyone else's intelligence, so if you read this last sentence, please disregard it !!


BEEF,PORK,CHICKEN the other great meats !!!
 
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bicker

DTVUSA Member
#17
What is really sad is how blind and uninformed you really are.
I'm not blind. I'm not uninformed. I disagree with your political perspective, and won't let you get away with deception.

Again: No one has attempted to do away with broadcast television entirely. They haven't. No matter how many words you type in, you have yet to type in Word One that comes close to what you insinuated in that regard.

Here I post actual and true statements from industry insiders and watchdogs
You posted their opinions -- their guesses about what other people were thinking -- and then you tried to pass that off as proof that real people were really trying to do something specific. You were caught. Get over it.

And you still insist on showing how stubborn you are
Holy cow that's incredibly arrogant. You are wrong, but you are clearly intent on brow-beating me until I bend over and let you assault me. It's not going to happen. I put forward a very clear point, that no one has attempted to do away with broadcast television entirely. You hate that I have the ability to post that and you cannot effectively refute it, so you are working incredibly hard, arguing against things I haven't said, in a vain attempt to try to make it look like I was mistaken. Again, it's not going to happen. Every time you mischaracterize my position, I will correct you.

I have clearly won this debate by using true facts based on early returns.
I think that's part of your problem: You're trying to win a debate, at all costs, even stooping to engaging in deception. What I'm trying to do is engage in a mature give-and-take regarding an issue.

I am clearly right on this issue, and you are clearly uninformed, and wrong. ... I have clearly won this "Debate", and you are a sore loser... HA HA HA, I have clearly won, and you have clearly lost....
I think you have soundly proven my earlier point about how your rhetoric indicates your lack of maturity, and justifies my earlier assumption by calling you "son".

BEEF,PORK,CHICKEN the other great meats !!!
Not to mention your stooping to disparaging my ethical beliefs. Very nice. What's next? Are you going to start insulting my late mother?
 

FOX TV

Contributor
#18
More ridiculous, self-serving nonsense. No one said anything about throwing away anyone.

At this point, your distortion is so gross and so clearly deliberate that it constitutes deception. Stop it.

First, I think you are assuming that this is a discussion about the health care bill, and/or that anyone here is supporting the health care bill as it is currently written. If I'm going to debate health care, I won't do so on a television-related forum. So your attempt to cast an argument based on health care is without merit, since you're effectively arguing with yourself, since you're the only one who is putting the health care bill forward.

Second, since you've been so deceptive, I'll engage in some of my own (except, being the honorable guy I am, I'm actually labeling it as such): So you consider Desperate Housewives more important than saving babies' lives?

Again with the ridiculous, self-serving nonsense. No one said anything about taxpayers having to pay for television. Stop engaging in deception.
The more I read your gibberish, the more you show how little you know. It has already been proposed that the same people who needed the converter boxes, will need to have their TV paid for by the American Public . Your closed mindedness is not worth my time.
 

FOX TV

Contributor
#19
I'm not blind. I'm not uninformed. I disagree with your political perspective, and won't let you get away with deception.

Again: No one has attempted to do away with broadcast television entirely. They haven't. No matter how many words you type in, you have yet to type in Word One that comes close to what you insinuated in that regard.

You posted their opinions -- their guesses about what other people were thinking -- and then you tried to pass that off as proof that real people were really trying to do something specific. You were caught. Get over it.

Holy cow that's incredibly arrogant. You are wrong, but you are clearly intent on brow-beating me until I bend over and let you assault me. It's not going to happen. I put forward a very clear point, that no one has attempted to do away with broadcast television entirely. You hate that I have the ability to post that and you cannot effectively refute it, so you are working incredibly hard, arguing against things I haven't said, in a vain attempt to try to make it look like I was mistaken. Again, it's not going to happen. Every time you mischaracterize my position, I will correct you.

I think that's part of your problem: You're trying to win a debate, at all costs, even stooping to engaging in deception. What I'm trying to do is engage in a mature give-and-take regarding an issue.

I think you have soundly proven my earlier point about how your rhetoric indicates your lack of maturity, and justifies my earlier assumption by calling you "son".

Not to mention your stooping to disparaging my ethical beliefs. Very nice. What's next? Are you going to start insulting my late mother?
So the words "Troll & Son to someone twice your age" are not disrespectful? You are just a blind person stuck in your own closed minded world.
 

MikeC

DTVUSA Jr. Member
#20
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Take a look at this link:
The Ofcom Digital Dividend Review (DDR) | Ofcom

I know it's old but it's starting to happen now.

Here in the UK our govt is going to sell off chunks of UHF spectrum for "new uses" and deprive us of space for much-wanted HD services. Spectrum is so restricted that the SD channels that once occupied 6x8Mhz multiplexes are being shoe-horned into 5 so that one can be used for a maximum of 4 HD services.

I live in a region where this has already been done and some of the SD channels are now not a lot better than some YouTube videos.

It's a bit Pythonesque really. They're releasing broadcast TV spectrum so we can watch TV on our cellphones!
 
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