Convert 1080 broadcast to 720???

caseym

DTVUSA Jr. Member
#1
So I'm trying to switch from Dish Network to OTA antenna. I've tried 3 different antennas and have had the same results with all of them. The one I have right now is the Leaf. It appears that all of them are receiving the broadcasted channels (I'm about 30 miles from the station). The problem I'm having is the 2 main stations that I really want (CBS and ABC) are giving me a "Mode Not Supported" message on my TV. I have a Samsung PN50C450 720p plasma TV (Amazon.com: Samsung PN50C450 50-Inch 720p Plasma HDTV (Black): Electronics). I'm pretty sure that the problem is that the stations are being broadcast in 1080i and my TV only supports 720p. However, I'm having a heck of a time trying to find a way to fix it without buying a new TV. Are there any converter boxes that might rectify this? I'm sure that TiVo or some DVR box like that will do it because I'm assuming that you can specify the output resolution on the box. But I don't want to spend $300 on box if there is something else that will do this. All I want to do is downscale the incoming signal to 720p. Any suggestions?

I appreciate the help.

Thanks,
Casey
 

Aaron62

Contributor
Staff member
#2
What the?? I'm pretty sure I have a friend with a 720p that will receive 1080i broadcasts and convert to 720p. If no one has an answer by tonight for you, I'll give him a call and come back and reply.
 
G

Guest

Guest
#3
What the?? I'm pretty sure I have a friend with a 720p that will receive 1080i broadcasts and convert to 720p. If no one has an answer by tonight for you, I'll give him a call and come back and reply.
Yeah that's what I thought too...but from everything I've read about the TV, the "Mode Not Supported" message means that the incoming resolution of the signal is too high. Hopefully there's an answer for this.

Thanks for responding!
 

dkreichen1968

Moderator
Staff member
#4
What are the call letters for the ABC station? Most ABC stations are 720p since the network feed is 720p. Does it work on NBC (most NBC stations are 1080i)? Do the stations have multicast (sub) channels? That might be messing with the tuner.

It wouldn't hurt to know what the URL for your TV Fool report was.

Dan

P.S. My 2010 manufactured Dynex 720p TV has no problem with 1080i.
 
Last edited:

scandiskwindows9x

Moderator of DTV Latino
#5
The 720 televisions also supports 1080 broadcasts the signal have nothing to do if your television appear the mode not supported must be something related with the modulation or check out in samsung site if there is any firmware update for your model, the firmware is the software that made possible works the hardware in harmony, if there is not updated firmware I would suggest go to the technician.

I had a similar problem with a philips tv in analogic cable couldn't pick up the channels 62-70 and were a tuner problem.

Best regards
Francisco

Sent from my LG-P500h using Tapatalk 2
 

caseym

DTVUSA Jr. Member
#6
Here's my TV Fool report: TV Fool

I do not pick up NBC...call letters for NBC are WJAC-TV; CBS is WTAJ-DT; and ABC is WATM-DT. My TV is a 2010 model. I will check on the firmware update.

Thanks!
 

dkreichen1968

Moderator
Staff member
#7
Is a roof top antenna an option in your case? If so, please run a TVfool report using a roof top height above ground level. Even though you're less than 30 miles from the broadcast towers there is obviously some major terrain between you and the towers. You need more signal than what an indoor antenna is going to give you. If your Dish mount has a view to the south you may be able to use it and the cabling for an OTA antenna. You're going to want a high gain UHF antenna and possibly a rotor (and I don't like rotors ;)). You're in a far from ideal location.

I'm guessing the TV is picking up just enough signal to map the channels, but not enough to actually decode them.
 
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caseym

DTVUSA Jr. Member
#8
Is a roof top antenna an option in your case? If so, please run a TVfool report using a roof top height above ground level. Even though you're less than 30 miles from the broadcast towers there is obviously some major terrain between you and the towers. You need more signal than what an indoor antenna is going to give you. If your Dish mount has a view to the south you may be able to use it and the cabling for an OTA antenna. You're going to want a high gain UHF antenna and possibly a rotor (and I don't like rotors ;)). You're in a far from ideal location.

I'm guessing the TV is picking up just enough signal to map the channels, but not enough to actually decode them.
OK...that's kinda what I was expecting. Yes, a roof mounted antenna is definitely on the radar. I was hoping to do it without that purchase but if it works, then so be it. I'm going to try updating the firmware first tonight and see if that makes a difference and I'll let you guys know what I find.

Thanks so much for all of the help. Greatly appreciate it.
 

caseym

DTVUSA Jr. Member
#9
Is a roof top antenna an option in your case? If so, please run a TVfool report using a roof top height above ground level. Even though you're less than 30 miles from the broadcast towers there is obviously some major terrain between you and the towers. You need more signal than what an indoor antenna is going to give you. If your Dish mount has a view to the south you may be able to use it and the cabling for an OTA antenna. You're going to want a high gain UHF antenna and possibly a rotor (and I don't like rotors ;)). You're in a far from ideal location.

I'm guessing the TV is picking up just enough signal to map the channels, but not enough to actually decode them.


Here's the new report with an outdoor antenna mounted roughly 20' AGL: TV Fool

Here's the antenna I was looking at: Winegard HD8200U Heavy Duty Platinum VHF/UHF/FM HDTV Antenna (HD-8200U) from Solid Signal

Are there other recommendations for an antenna?
 

caseym

DTVUSA Jr. Member
#11
I upgraded the firmware on my TV and no change. The channels that I'm seeing clearly are WPSUHD (3-1), WPSUSD1 (3-2), and WPSUSD2 (3-3). The channels that I get "Mode Not Supported" on are 15-9 (no call letters are displayed) and 15-10 (no call letters are displayed). On WHVL-HD (29-1) and WHVL-A1 (29-2) I get "Weak or no signal" but the autoscan has recognized the channels.

I'm guessing the outdoor antenna is the only way to go here. I still don't understand the "Mode Not Supported" message.
 

dkreichen1968

Moderator
Staff member
#12
I still don't understand the "Mode Not Supported" message.
My slightly educated guess is that the tuner is seeing a broken data stream and the "Mode Not Supported" message is it simply telling you "I don't understand what I see." The main thing to worry about right now is getting a decent level of signal to your TV.
 

scandiskwindows9x

Moderator of DTV Latino
#13
i have a question do you have an Blu ray or any other HD source to test? if have an Blu ray player could test it setting in 1080 and play a disc in HD native if the playback is smooth then is not the image engine and is your turner.

we have to consider something, is not your antenna the faulty, because can get the other channels, also is not signal because ATSC have just 1 mode of broadcast via 8 VSB modulation so is not error of broadcast, if were ISDB-T or DVB-T i could suspect of error of parameters of the advanced modulation like guard interval Time interleaver constellation of QAM-QSPK and FEC(forward error correction) values but is not your case, the reception is not the faulty is your turner the faulty, also if were the data packages damaged during broadcast instead of get the error would get sporadic images freezed or black with a constant freezing images.

also i find weird that a HD 720p display do not accept Full HD 1080i or 1080p sources without do itself down conversion

i just would suggest the test with another HD source and finally send the TV to warranty or return back if is very new.



best regards
Francisco
 
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dkreichen1968

Moderator
Staff member
#14
Hi Francisco,

TVfool predicts that the signals in caseym's area are very weak. I find it a promising sign that the channels show up at all on an indoor antenna. Who knows what the TV tuner is actually seeing, but I don't see anyway that a TV manufactured in 2010 wouldn't support 1080i.

Best regards,
Dan
 

caseym

DTVUSA Jr. Member
#15
i have a question do you have an Blu ray or any other HD source to test? if have an Blu ray player could test it setting in 1080 and play a disc in HD native if the playback is smooth then is not the image engine and is your turner.

we have to consider something, is not your antenna the faulty, because can get the other channels, also is not signal because ATSC have just 1 mode of broadcast via 8 VSB modulation so is not error of broadcast, if were ISDB-T or DVB-T i could suspect of error of parameters of the advanced modulation like guard interval Time interleaver constellation of QAM-QSPK and FEC(forward error correction) values but is not your case, the reception is not the faulty is your turner the faulty, also if were the data packages damaged during broadcast instead of get the error would get sporadic images freezed or black with a constant freezing images.

also i find weird that a HD 720p display do not accept Full HD 1080i or 1080p sources without do itself down conversion

i just would suggest the test with another HD source and finally send the TV to warranty or return back if is very new.



best regards
Francisco

I have tested with other HD sources. My Blu-ray player will not work with the TV if the output is set to anything above 720p. Actually, when I first purchased the Blu-ray, I had to connect it via the component cable and change the default resolution for HDMI because by default, HDMI on the blu-ray was outputting 1080p and my TV was rejecting it (it's been a while but I believe it was the same "Mode Not Supported" message). I *think* my Dish HD DVR receiver automatically outputs to 1080i and my TV seems fine with that...I could be wrong on that...maybe the Dish receiver was only outputting 720p and that's why I never had issues with it.
 

MrPogi

Moderator, , Webmaster of Cache Free TV
Staff member
#16
I upgraded the firmware on my TV and no change. The channels that I'm seeing clearly are WPSUHD (3-1), WPSUSD1 (3-2), and WPSUSD2 (3-3). The channels that I get "Mode Not Supported" on are 15-9 (no call letters are displayed) and 15-10 (no call letters are displayed). On WHVL-HD (29-1) and WHVL-A1 (29-2) I get "Weak or no signal" but the autoscan has recognized the channels.

I'm guessing the outdoor antenna is the only way to go here. I still don't understand the "Mode Not Supported" message.
from RabbitEars.Info
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=print_station&facility_id=66219

[TABLE="class: stationchannels, width: 100%"]

[TD="colspan: 2"]15.10[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"]15.9[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 9"](These two subchannels are artifacts of the

UpdateTV

service. They do not show programming.)[/TD]


[/TABLE]
 

caseym

DTVUSA Jr. Member
#17
from RabbitEars.Info
WPSU-TV CLEARFIELD, PA

[TABLE="class: stationchannels, width: 100%"]

[TD="colspan: 2"]15.10[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"]15.9[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 9"](These two subchannels are artifacts of the

UpdateTV

service. They do not show programming.)[/TD]


[/TABLE]

Interesting...so the antennas I've tried so far aren't even pulling in the stations from Altoona (about 30 miles)??? I've ordered the Antennas Direct 91XG antenna so once that comes in and I get it installed, I will provide an update.

Thanks so much!
 

MrPogi

Moderator, , Webmaster of Cache Free TV
Staff member
#18
I think the 91xg will pull in a few more channels for you. I noticed your signals are all edge signals - when you install the 91xg, try a few locations to find the best signal. With edge signals, a few feet in any direction (including up or down!) can make a difference.
 

scandiskwindows9x

Moderator of DTV Latino
#19
i see many channels in 1-2 edge diffraction are 18 in total but i already do not think be the signal the defective already could be your turner but is not way of try out another television or converter box so well perhaps your new antenna could solve the problem but already the message mode not supported is weird if were signal issue
 

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