Digital TV Antenna

MrPogi

Moderator, , Webmaster of Cache Free TV
Staff member
#2
What is the average mileage range for an outdoor TV antenna vs an indoor TV antenna?
There's too many variables to make a blanket statement, other than:

If you move your antenna outside, and it's the same antenna at the same height as it was indoors, outdoors will always be better.
 

dkreichen1968

Moderator
Staff member
#3
The range for any antenna is dependant on the frequency, ERP, HAAT, and antenna alignment of the broadcast transmitters and the terrain, trees, and structures between you and the towers. I can pick up signals on an indoor antenna from 48 miles away, while people living in Manitou Springs, Colorado can't pick up signals broadcast 8 miles away on an outdoor antenna.

The other factor is the antenna's gain on the desired frequencies.
 
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n2rj

Moderator
Staff member
#4
To add to what others are saying, the two biggest enemies of digital reception are signal attenuation and multipath. In an indoor environment both of the above are practically guaranteed which makes indoor antennas pretty much useless unless you have strong signals or good line of sight to the transmitter and few obstructions outside (and inside).
 
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dkreichen1968

Moderator
Staff member
#6
Anyone have any suggestions for an indoor antenna for Bixby, OK?
I'm gonna cut the cable.
Here is an approximate TV Fool.

You have both Hi-VHF and UHF signals. Most locals are coming from 61 degrees magnetic (west-northwest). On the low end a RCA ANT112 ($10 at Walmart) may work well. Higher end, a Winegard Flatwave or Solidsignal Blade may do well. You may also consider using a Winegard HD30 Freevision indoors. Outdoors is always better, and an attic mount may be better also.
 
#7
What is the average mileage range for an outdoor TV antenna vs an indoor TV antenna?
Here's how I would put it: An indoor antenna has three strikes going against it, right from the start. 1) It's indoors, where the signal is normally blocked or attenuated. 2) They're usually too small. And 3) They often have built in preamplifiers, which conditions indoors often render worse than useless. Then if you detach the amplifier, they're usually built in such a way that no signal at all can get through.

There are gimmicks to make indoor antennas somewhat "omni"directional, but these gimmicks don't nearly make up for the substandard size and location. Hence, on average, indoor antennas should be rated with far lower mileage figures than outdoor antennas.

For whatever reason, antenna makers have chosen to inflict us with 2) and 3) in their so-called "indoor" lines. Maybe the idea is to force people to make a second purchase. Even indoors, a nice big outdoor antenna works better with rare exceptions -- assuming the lady of the house approves. :bowdown:

Rick
 

nbound-au

The Graveyard Shift
#10
Everyone knows my thoughts on this, but just for our new guest:

"The only good antenna, is an outdoor antenna".


Even a tiny combination antenna outdoors will probably receive most to all of the green stations. At least attempt an in attic mount if for whatever reason you can't roofmount it, its a compromise though.
 
#11
"The only good antenna, is an outdoor antenna".
Can my antenna be considered a "good" antenna? If you will remember, I have a 4221HD "installed" (really just sitting in a cardboard box) on the top of a high desk close to the roof. I don't see any practical difference between my installation and an attic installation -- the roof is shallow. By trial and error, I've found my antenna needs to clear a metal drain pipe that goes all around the apartment building.

I have strong signals coming from the north and south, and get over 20 stations (50 channels) when I go to the trouble of swiveling my 4221HD on the little lazy susan I bought on eBay. I honestly think people in good to excellent reception areas would be better off(!) testing reception indoors before risking life and limb climbing up the roof.

Here are the advantages to an indoor / attic installation:
- Much safer and more convenient installation.
- Much cheaper than hiring a professional installer.
- Much less upkeep -- tornados, hail storms, wind, icicles NO PROBLEMO!
- Much cheaper and safer COST of upkeep, when it occurs.
- Shorter runs of coax.
- Fewer holes to drill, making the low loss "one antenna per receiver" solution more practical.
- Much easier to rotate or move on the fly, without any expensive, high maintenance equipment.

Let me make it clear I'm talking about a decent roof or attic antenna installed indoors -- not one of these plastic, preamplified omni-scams. Against my points above you have one thing: optimal reception. But what if your reception is already adequate with an indoor setup? You can't watch more than one station at a time!!! I honestly never came up against a situation where there was an OTA program I wanted to watch that I couldn't get in timely fashion.

Rick
 

MrPogi

Moderator, , Webmaster of Cache Free TV
Staff member
#12
An outdoor antenna can do a decent job indoors, provided your location allows for decent reception. I had an antenna in my attic for a year, but got too many drop outs.

One great advantage of an attic install is it's not going to blow over in a storm. As long as you still have a house, you will still have TV.
 
#13
I was getting bored, and I thought this was a great topic, so then I thought why not pick a fight with our new contributor and expert from the other side of the globe?? (Congratulations nbound! :cheers:)

Even a tiny combination antenna outdoors will probably receive most to all of the green stations.
Here's where I get confused. WHY would anyone fool around with a small antenna, unless it's a little $5 jobber, just to test your indoor potential? If you put it on the roof, surely you want a GINORMOUS MONSTER just to show off! But in any event, a 30 inch antenna isn't going to cost significantly more than a 10 inch, if both are built to weather the elements. So what's wrong with putting something at least 20" square inside? I get all the green stations and a few yellow, and occasional tropo, all with my 4221HD near the ceiling. I'm sure many, many people could do the same if they just took the time to test several locations around the house. Then they would get ALL those benefits in upkeep / convenience / safety I posted above.

At least attempt an in attic mount if for whatever reason you can't roofmount it, its a compromise though.
A compromise with what? When, exactly, did optimum reception become the top criterion? Why is it more important than any of the imperatives I listed?

I think people should buy a little bit better antenna than they need to get good reception oudoors, then try it first indoors! I mean good god, if you want ALL the stations, you should keep CATV along with SATV, OTA, and anything else you can think of. There HAS to be better ways to prove your manhood than optimizing TV reception. :boxer:

Rick
 

nbound-au

The Graveyard Shift
#15
Can my antenna be considered a "good" antenna? If you will remember, I have a 4221HD "installed" (really just sitting in a cardboard box) on the top of a high desk close to the roof. I don't see any practical difference between my installation and an attic installation -- the roof is shallow. By trial and error, I've found my antenna needs to clear a metal drain pipe that goes all around the apartment building.

I have strong signals coming from the north and south, and get over 20 stations (50 channels) when I go to the trouble of swiveling my 4221HD on the little lazy susan I bought on eBay. I honestly think people in good to excellent reception areas would be better off(!) testing reception indoors before risking life and limb climbing up the roof.

Here are the advantages to an indoor / attic installation:
- Much safer and more convenient installation.
- Much cheaper than hiring a professional installer.
- Much less upkeep -- tornados, hail storms, wind, icicles NO PROBLEMO!
- Much cheaper and safer COST of upkeep, when it occurs.
- Shorter runs of coax.
- Fewer holes to drill, making the low loss "one antenna per receiver" solution more practical.
- Much easier to rotate or move on the fly, without any expensive, high maintenance equipment.

Let me make it clear I'm talking about a decent roof or attic antenna installed indoors -- not one of these plastic, preamplified omni-scams. Against my points above you have one thing: optimal reception. But what if your reception is already adequate with an indoor setup? You can't watch more than one station at a time!!! I honestly never came up against a situation where there was an OTA program I wanted to watch that I couldn't get in timely fashion.

Rick
Most people will get a professional to do the install, even in the US. Which means most of those arent applicable in those cases.

But even if DIY outside:
  • Stronger signals
  • More options for transmitter sites.
  • Cleaner signals (this is very important)
  • Less chance of impulse noise from home equipment.
  • Less likely to require amplification (Save $$$)
  • As long as its properly mounted weather/climate should not be a major issue.
  • Easier to add in extra runs as there is more signal level.
  • More likely to not require rotation to receive all desired headings
  • Easier to mount combination systems (diplexed antennas)
  • Some people consider antennas in their living rooms, etc. to be unsightly. Most people, after the initial novelty, wont look at their roof antenna.

Ill make it clear I never said it wouldnt work. But it will work better outside.

Can your antenna be considered good, yep sure, it does what you want it to right for the moment. If it was on the roof, itd probably be better though, and who knows what you might decide to do with your cabling down the line.

Here's where I get confused. WHY would anyone fool around with a small antenna, unless it's a little $5 jobber, just to test your indoor potential? If you put it on the roof, surely you want a GINORMOUS MONSTER just to show off! But in any event, a 30 inch antenna isn't going to cost significantly more than a 10 inch, if both are built to weather the elements. So what's wrong with putting something at least 20" square inside? I get all the green stations and a few yellow, and occasional tropo, all with my 4221HD near the ceiling. I'm sure many, many people could do the same if they just took the time to test several locations around the house. Then they would get ALL those benefits in upkeep / convenience / safety I posted above.
Because a ginormous monster is a waste of $$$.

A tile roof/brick exterior will likely attenuate VHF by ~10dB and VHF by ~20+dB. If your home has aluminium sarking under the roof or sisalation wrapped around the frame, dont even bother, same if it has a corrugated iron roof. To get the same signal as a tiny aerial outside requires a large one in the roof. or is impossible.

Your situation works great for you. It might work well for others. It doesnt mean that my little motto doesnt generally hold true.



A compromise with what? When, exactly, did optimum reception become the top criterion? Why is it more important than any of the imperatives I listed?

I think people should buy a little bit better antenna than they need to get good reception oudoors, then try it first indoors! I mean good god, if you want ALL the stations, you should keep CATV along with SATV, OTA, and anything else you can think of. There HAS to be better ways to prove your manhood than optimizing TV reception. :boxer:
  • Because haveing a stronger/cleaner signal at the antenna will save you money if you ever expand your system.
  • Because things can change in the signal path and indoors no longer becomes an option (you'll have no recourse if the neighbours renovations cause your signal to no longer work inside). Even if your neighbours place gets demolished and they put up 2 or 3 storeys of apartments, your outdoor antenna might still work as good as your indoor one did before.) - This isnt that uncommon
  • As your antenna system slowly degrades to its eventual demise (assuming no sudden death scenarios), having the extra signal could give you months or years of extra TV time on your initial outlay.

Im not saying use a 91 element for LOS stations either, maybe a 3 element will be more than enough. No need to go crazy.

Im not saying get everything on your TV fool, just get the stations you need while puttingdrenched in the 50/200kW signals of Telstra Tower the antenna outdoors.

If you live really close to a transmitter and you prefer it, then mount it indoors/attic. This is a compromise situation as far as signals are concerned. If your home has 4 TVs, is it going to be cost effective to have 4x 4bays in each room as opposed to one in the attic, nope.... Then you have kids and they fight over the TVs (or whatever scenario), your attic mount is at its limit (in this example), But on the roof youve could of had an extra 15dB of signal, with the cost of cable and the required splitter, youve got enough there to deliver signal to every room in your home and probably sling a line to your shed too.


If putting antennas in attics was all the best thing since sliced bread, there would be thousands upon thousands upon thousands in attics here. But nope, >98% all are on top of roofs. And thats even in downtown Canberra drenched in the 50/200kW signals of Telstra Tower.
 
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#17
Most people will get a professional to do the install, even in the US. Which means most of those arent applicable in those cases.
I don't know how you would get accurate numbers on that, but I honestly don't think this is true today in the U.S. nor Canada. I think it was true 55 years ago, when analog was slowly gaining popularity over live entertainment. (My dad is a great example. He was a professional musician -- had his own little dance band -- and had to quit to become (guess what) an antenna installer! A few years later that department closed at that appliance store, and he graduated to white goods repairman -- washers, driers, air conditioners, dish washers.) When I put "antenna installation" into the yellow pages, I get a lot of Dish salesmen, video/sound systems, and one (1) antenna installer within 50 miles of Kenosha (that includes Chicago and Milwaukee!). This appears to be a one man operation by a retired guy.

But even if DIY outside:
- Stronger signals
- More options for transmitter sites.
- Cleaner signals (this is very important)
- Less chance of impulse noise from home equipment.
All these come under the rubric of superior reception. You don't care about impulse noise if you get a stable signal. You don't care about clean signals if you get a stable signal. Etc.

- Less likely to require amplification (Save $$$)
Don't think so! E.g. dkr recommends the HD BLADE for an indoor because he thinks amplification is normally counterproductive indoors.

- As long as its properly mounted weather/climate should not be a major issue.
I think you must have milder weather down under. At any rate, this is not a positive advantage but a possible answer to one of my points.

- Easier to add in extra runs as there is more signal level.
- More likely to not require rotation to receive all desired headings
More reception issues.

- Easier to mount combination systems (diplexed antennas)
??? You mean because there's more room outside? You're streeeeeeeeeeeetching. :becky:

- Some people consider antennas in their living rooms, etc. to be unsightly. Most people, after the initial novelty, wont look at their roof antenna.
Sure! Everyone else looks at your ROOF antenna.

Ill make it clear I never said it wouldnt work. But it will work better outside.
Not if it breaks!!

Can your antenna be considered good, yep sure, it does what you want it to right for the moment. If it was on the roof, itd probably be better though, and who knows what you might decide to do with your cabling down the line.
I believe the future is more along the lines of what Aereo is doing.

A tile roof/brick exterior will likely attenuate VHF by ~10dB and VHF by ~20+dB. If your home has aluminium sarking under the roof or sisalation wrapped around the frame, dont even bother, same if it has a corrugated iron roof. To get the same signal as a tiny aerial outside requires a large one in the roof. or is impossible.
Agreed. You need to have the right spot under the right roof.

Your situation works great for you. It might work well for others. It doesnt mean that my little motto doesnt generally hold true.
"The only good antenna, is an outdoor antenna." [emphasis added] Your words, sir.

- Because haveing a stronger/cleaner signal at the antenna will save you money if you ever expand your system.
- Because things can change in the signal path and indoors no longer becomes an option (you'll have no recourse if the neighbours renovations cause your signal to no longer work inside). Even if your neighbours place gets demolished and they put up 2 or 3 storeys of apartments, your outdoor antenna might still work as good as your indoor one did before.) - This isnt that uncommon
- As your antenna system slowly degrades to its eventual demise (assuming no sudden death scenarios), having the extra signal could give you months or years of extra TV time on your initial outlay.
I really think my present antenna is going to last much longer than I will.

If you live really close to a transmitter and you prefer it, then mount it indoors/attic.
I do not live close to a transmitter. The closest are 37 miles away, most others are 48 miles away. The stronger signals are 48 miles away, contrary to your premise.

This is a compromise situation as far as signals are concerned. If your home has 4 TVs, is it going to be cost effective to have 4x 4bays in each room as opposed to one in the attic, nope....
Oh ho! Now you're throwing cost into the equation. I think you lose on that one. Suppose there's a 1 in 200 chance our amateur installer falls and causes some kind of permanent health issue. I truly think 1/200 is a conservative estimate. Any reasonable assessment is going to put the added risk outdoors well over two thousand USDA. Yes, I think 4 x 4 bays indoors is cost effective.

Then you have kids and they fight over the TVs (or whatever scenario), your attic mount is at its limit (in this example), But on the roof youve could of had an extra 15dB of signal, with the cost of cable and the required splitter, youve got enough there to deliver signal to every room in your home and probably sling a line to your shed too.
And the extra 15 dB gets completely split away. Better to have lots of antennas. Redundancy! If one breaks, you have three others working splendidly.

If putting antennas in attics was all the best thing since sliced bread, there would be thousands upon thousands upon thousands in attics here. But nope, >98% all are on top of roofs. And thats even in downtown Canberra
That's cause experts like YOU have thoroughly indoctrinated the teeming masses. I certainly think you're an expert, but you are unable to see how much market forces have shaded your opinion. The market force in this case is the amount you can expect to get paid for an indoor installation.

To sum up, I think perhaps 20% of prospective OTA converts should look hard at the indoor possibilities. I expect you'd put the number closer to 0.20% -- one in 500.

Good discussion. :cheers:
Rick
 

nbound-au

The Graveyard Shift
#18
I don't know how you would get accurate numbers on that, but I honestly don't think this is true today in the U.S. nor Canada. I think it was true 55 years ago, when analog was slowly gaining popularity over live entertainment. (My dad is a great example. He was a professional musician -- had his own little dance band -- and had to quit to become (guess what) an antenna installer! A few years later that department closed at that appliance store, and he graduated to white goods repairman -- washers, driers, air conditioners, dish washers.) When I put "antenna installation" into the yellow pages, I get a lot of Dish salesmen, video/sound systems, and one (1) antenna installer within 50 miles of Kenosha (that includes Chicago and Milwaukee!). This appears to be a one man operation by a retired guy.
Im sure most dish installers could manage an antenna installation.

Over here if you looked up dish installation you would probably only get a couple as well, the vast majority of antenna installers do at least some dish installations. The reverse is likely true in the states as theres no point marketing your dish installation business as antenna installation, as the market over there would be in dishes.


All these come under the rubric of superior reception. You don't care about impulse noise if you get a stable signal. You don't care about clean signals if you get a stable signal. Etc.
Clean signals are the most important thing of the lot, I can do far more with a weak clean signal, than a noisy strong one. Inside is full of reflections and other nasties. You even say yourself that youve got to move indoor antennas around alot for a reliable signal, this is in areas where the signal is otherwise classed as great.

Don't think so! E.g. dkr recommends the HD BLADE for an indoor because he thinks amplification is normally counterproductive indoors.
It is, but if you want to split your attic mount to extra outlets, your gonna need to do something. Amp =$$$, 2nd antenna= $$$



I think you must have milder weather down under. At any rate, this is not a positive advantage but a possible answer to one of my points.
Australia? mild weather? HA!

We have pretty much every weather phenomenon here that you guys have up there in at least some part of the nation. Hot, Cold, Windy, Rainy, Dry, Wet, Dusty... You name it, we've got it...



More reception issues.
That you are less likely to have outside... The whole point of an antenna is to get good reception on your channels :)

??? You mean because there's more room outside? You're streeeeeeeeeeeetching. :becky:
Am I? Lets all mount our 91 elements and 8 bays and Massive Winegard Mostrosities in our attics! :p


Sure! Everyone else looks at your ROOF antenna.
They honestly dont, at least once the novelty wears off. Im forever point out funny things I see on roofs to my wife and to friends... noone looks up.

The number of people who move into houses with no reception, and wonder whats going on, Im the only one who looks up and sees their complete lack of antenna.

If you ever come to Australia, you probably wont notice the millions of antennas on roofs throughout the country either. Noone else does.

Very unlikely (and even moreso to damage enough to lose reception), the benefits IMHO outweigh the small risk. The only place Ive ever lived where the TV reception died was due to a cabling fault in the wall.

"The only good antenna, is an outdoor antenna." [emphasis added] Your words, sir.
Pope nbound would like to say his holy book is only based on fact, not divinely inspired. I never intended to make a blanket statement, just a general one.

I really think my present antenna is going to last much longer than I will.
I think mine will last a good 10-15 years. I should still be alive then, fingers crossed, as long as i havent fallen off any roofs :D :p

I wonder how many hundred/thousand times your RG6 will like being turned back and forth before metal fatigue causes the core to snap?




I do not live close to a transmitter. The closest are 37 miles away, most others are 48 miles away. The stronger signals are 48 miles away, contrary to your premise.
Then you are very lucky, and probably line of sight to very strong transmitters :)


Oh ho! Now you're throwing cost into the equation. I think you lose on that one. Suppose there's a 1 in 200 chance our amateur installer falls and causes some kind of permanent health issue. I truly think 1/200 is a conservative estimate. Any reasonable assessment is going to put the added risk outdoors well over two thousand USDA. Yes, I think 4 x 4 bays indoors is cost effective.
I think you are overestimating the risk of climbing on roofs, Ive literally climbed on probably thousands. Not one accident, not even a trip.

Of course people die inside too (electrocution, falling through ceilings, etc.)

Thats not to say its impossible, Ive done a job where the previous installer has died doing it. They took an unneccesary risk, and paid the ultimate price.




And the extra 15 dB gets completely split away. Better to have lots of antennas. Redundancy! If one breaks, you have three others working splendidly.
Having four more antennas gives 4 more opportunities for failure; MTBF x1 antenna = X years, MTBF x4 antenna = X/4 years.


That's cause experts like YOU have thoroughly indoctrinated the teeming masses. I certainly think you're an expert, but you are unable to see how much market forces have shaded your opinion. The market force in this case is the amount you can expect to get paid for an indoor installation.
Nothing, Im an employee. I get paid by the hour.

To sum up, I think perhaps 20% of prospective OTA converts should look hard at the indoor possibilities. I expect you'd put the number closer to 0.20% -- one in 500.
Maybe 1 in 50 or 1 in 100?

Most people dont live in areas where the signal is good enough for it. In many areas that number would be 0 in 100 :p


Discussiontastic :drinks:
 
#19
Im sure most dish installers could manage an antenna installation.
Dunno. Don't know if they'd TAKE the job. Don't know if people KNOW to call a Dish guy in order to set up an antenna -- they don't spend much money advertising that service, that's for sure! Point is, most folks in the U.S. do NOT pay professionals to come out and install antennas. Or at least that's my strong impression. I'd like to hear other opinions.

You even say yourself that youve got to move indoor antennas around alot for a reliable signal, this is in areas where the signal is otherwise classed as great.
There may be some confusion about that. I do NOT move my indoor antenna around at all anymore, except to do the goofy tests I think up. I think you know I have a two antenna / two tuner setup, and that negates any need to use the lazy susan underneath my "good" antenna. My second antenna is a cheapo $23 indoor with built-in nonremovable preamp. I'll eventually replace it with a Hoverman, but I really have SO many channels, and SO many duplicate channels, I'm consumed with ennui on that. (Bear in mind I spend most of my time viewing those nefarious iTV feeds.)

But I occasionally say "I can get all the green" by rotating my 4221HD, just to be accurate. Once I get the Hoverman, I'll get all the green plus a couple yellow with no turning whatsomeever. Not to say I won't rotate once in a while just to see what I can get from across the pond (Lake Michigan ... i.e. tropo).

Am I? Lets all mount our 91 elements and 8 bays and Massive Winegard Mostrosities in our attics! :p
Or near a shallow part of the roof where there is no attic like me. Plenty of room indoors. BE CREATIVE! Turn it into a Christmas tree.

If you ever come to Australia, you probably wont notice the millions of antennas on roofs throughout the country either. Noone else does.
And if everybody had indoor antennas -- or antlers on their foreheads -- nobody would notice those either. Just part of the landscape. :coca_cola_can:

Very unlikely (and even moreso to damage enough to lose reception), the benefits IMHO outweigh the small risk. The only place Ive ever lived where the TV reception died was due to a cabling fault in the wall.
Antenna broke in my apartment building right around 2009. 100+ people, POOF! No OTA anymore. Enough people were fed up right then with OTA, because of the flukey transition, and most already had cable, so they just rode out the complaints. Quoth the building manager's husband who used to be an antenna installer: "Waste of time ... Blow on it, and it'll break again ..." Hence, the cable companies rule the kingdom. Nobody thought of putting up their own deal inside.

I think mine will last a good 10-15 years. I should still be alive then, fingers crossed, as long as i havent fallen off any roofs :D :p
I think/hope I will NOT be alive that long, so have some respect for your elders.

I wonder how many hundred/thousand times your RG6 will like being turned back and forth before metal fatigue causes the core to snap?
If it snaps on account of all my goofy tests, that's one helluba CHEAP HOBBY! Shoot, $5 for 12 feet? Take me two minutes to snap it in.

Then you are very lucky, and probably line of sight to very strong transmitters :)
Well, the Willis tower is plenty high and strong, but hey -- 48 miles! But most people who live in or near a major metropolitan area have similar signal strength. And most people DO live in or near big cities -- that's why they're big cities.

I will admit that other guy (Tim), who recently put up a Hoverman with no reflector outside, gets stations I don't get. I can't figure out how many stations he needs to watch at once. :becky:

Having four more antennas gives 4 more opportunities for failure; MTBF x1 antenna = X years, MTBF x4 antenna = X/4 years.
Sorry, that would be true if failures ran on a flat curve or linear basis. MTBF is almost always the mean of a bell shaped (A.K.A. Gaussian or "normal") curve. Calculation is a bit more complicated than that. Off hand I'd guess MTBF(4 antennas) =~ MTBF(1 antenna)/2, but that's STILL only for one of the four antennas. This is the whole justification for diversifying your market portfolio, except the market generally runs on a log-normal or "brownian" distribution. Same principle, though.

Nothing, Im an employee. I get paid by the hour.
Yup. What I'm sayin ...

Most people dont live in areas where the signal is good enough for it.
But many people do. Most people live ... near where most people live!

In many areas that number would be 0 in 100 :p
OK, I give up. You win. (I woulda won if I wrote out the MTBF calculation, but there's that ennui thing again...)

:bolt:
Rick
 

nbound-au

The Graveyard Shift
#20
Dont worry i know the mean mtbf is wrong too, because it is a mean time before failure, what I was trying to say is giving 4 antennas you will be paying 4x as much as one over a very long period of time.

Anyway, or argument is semi pointless...

Back to our beers :drinks:
 
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