Dish discontinuing DTV Pal DVR?

NYCLA*

DTVUSA Member
#1
I've read rumors that Dish has discontinued the DTV Pal DVR. It's listed as "discontinued" on Solid Signal, but apparently still available on from an online retailer, DigitalStar.com, and then Sears, which rips people off for the unit at $299 when everyone else was/is selling it for ~$245. What a drag. If the DTV Pal DVR goes away, that means only Tivo is left for OTA, and while Tivo had some useful features the Pal DVR did not, it's A) more expensive, B) features advertising, and C) requires subscription fees UNLESS you want to pay the upfront price (which is what I would probably do, but then see "A" again). Also, while some people may find it useful, I find the live buffer being split between two tuners a total drag. Who needs live buffers on both tuners? This brings the buffer down to only 30 minutes per tuner. That's crap. I'd rather have one tuner with a 60 minute buffer - that's more useful (for me, anyway). And what happens if Tivo bites the dust and goes out of business after you've bought and paid for the box and service?

What a drag. :censored:
 
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#3
They would be crazy to do that. It's like the last of the OTA DVRs on the market.
Just how much of a market is there for OTA DVRs? I just can't see them selling more than a couple a day now days. Generally speaking, people who do not want to pay for cable or satellite service probably do not want to spend $250 for a device that records OTA.
 

CptlA

DTVUSA Member
#4
Just how much of a market is there for OTA DVRs? I just can't see them selling more than a couple a day now days. Generally speaking, people who do not want to pay for cable or satellite service probably do not want to spend $250 for a device that records OTA.
Probably. Could be that there are many other ways to watch OTA now, whether it be streaming online or use a USB ATSC device to record OTA to a hard drive.
 

NYCLA*

DTVUSA Member
#5
Just how much of a market is there for OTA DVRs? I just can't see them selling more than a couple a day now days. Generally speaking, people who do not want to pay for cable or satellite service probably do not want to spend $250 for a device that records OTA.
Cable is a waste of money IMO, and holds no value for me. I still want a DVR. Just because someone doesn't want to throw nearly $1000 dollars a year down the drain paying for television and channels I never watched, doesn't mean I don't want to spend $250 dollars for a "device that records", and allows me to pause and back up live television. What's the link? What's the stereotype at work here regarding OTA viewers?
 
#6
Cable is a waste of money IMO, and holds no value for me. I still want a DVR. Just because someone doesn't want to throw nearly $1000 dollars a year down the drain paying for television and channels I never watched, doesn't mean I don't want to spend $250 dollars for a "device that records", and allows me to pause and back up live television. What's the link? What's the stereotype at work here regarding OTA viewers?
No stereotype here. There's no doubt in my mind that cable and satellite customers are willing to spend more on DVRs because they offer more options for recording and more accurate program information.
 

NYCLA*

DTVUSA Member
#7
No stereotype here. There's no doubt in my mind that cable and satellite customers are willing to spend more on DVRs because they offer more options for recording and more accurate program information.
So why wouldn't someone who doesn't want to pay for cable/satellite not want a DVR for the same reasons (vis a vis a VCR, I guess, which I am going to assume is the unspoken comparison here)?
 
#8
So why wouldn't someone who doesn't want to pay for cable/satellite not want a DVR for the same reasons (vis a vis a VCR, I guess, which I am going to assume is the unspoken comparison here)?
The DTVPal DVR isn't as feature rich as what you can get with a cable/satellite DVR. The program guide on the DTVPal can only view 24-48 hours in advance (depending on the data you receive locally).

Take a Tivo DVR for instance,
-You can schedule shows to record online without touching your device at home.
-Search features are much better with searching by show, actor, or director.
-Season pass is much smarter on a Tivo than a DTVPal DVR

I could go on, but I just don't think the OTA DVR is that attractive to OTA viewers.
 

NYCLA*

DTVUSA Member
#9
The DTVPal DVR isn't as feature rich as what you can get with a cable/satellite DVR. The program guide on the DTVPal can only view 24-48 hours in advance (depending on the data you receive locally).

Take a Tivo DVR for instance,
-You can schedule shows to record online without touching your device at home.
-Search features are much better with searching by show, actor, or director.
-Season pass is much smarter on a Tivo than a DTVPal DVR

I could go on, but I just don't think the OTA DVR is that attractive to OTA viewers.
Huh? So you're saying that OTA viewers would rather have nothing at all? Or are you saying that OTA viewers would rather have a Tivo (which supports OTA also, as I mentioned)?
 
#10
Huh? So you're saying that OTA viewers would rather have nothing at all? Or are you saying that OTA viewers would rather have a Tivo (which supports OTA also, as I mentioned)?
Maybe. :) I know a lot of people were dissapointed to hear that the DTVPal DVR didn't include a QAM tuner. Doesn't matter to me as I have DirecTV, but I just can't see spending that kind of money on a device that depends on broadcasted program data from a third party.
 

NYCLA*

DTVUSA Member
#11
Maybe. :) I know a lot of people were dissapointed to hear that the DTVPal DVR didn't include a QAM tuner. Doesn't matter to me as I have DirecTV, but I just can't see spending that kind of money on a device that depends on broadcasted program data from a third party.
So which one? You think OTA viewers would rather have nothing at all or they'd rather have a Tivo? Secondly, if you're an OTA viewer, you have no need for a QAM tuner. And thirdly, while the Pal DVR gets is EPG from PSIP or TVGOS, Tivo gets theirs from Tribune. Cable and Satellite also get their EPG data from third parties. You're just not making any sense :confused:
 

bicker

DTVUSA Member
#12
There are several reasons why someone might choose OTA instead of cable. One of those reasons is money. While every person is different, it is logical to assume that the population that chooses OTA over cable tends to include more people who are more price sensitive with regard to entertainment. That tends work against an entertainment consumer product aimed at OTA instead of OTA and cable.

While I don't know if they're discontinuing the DTVPal DVR, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the product is doing poorly. If consumers aren't willing to purchase it at a price sufficient to motivate Echostar to continue producing it, then we consumers are losing a choice that we simply don't deserve to have available to us.
 
#13
So which one? You think OTA viewers would rather have nothing at all or they'd rather have a Tivo? Secondly, if you're an OTA viewer, you have no need for a QAM tuner. And thirdly, while the Pal DVR gets is EPG from PSIP or TVGOS, Tivo gets theirs from Tribune. Cable and Satellite also get their EPG data from third parties. You're just not making any sense :confused:
You're completely missing my point. See Bicker's post above.

Yes, Tivo uses Tribune Media Services for program information, which is a 3rd party, but they compensate them for this service. It's much more involved and accurate than the PSIP or TVGOS data.

I'm not making this a cable/satellite vs OTA battle. I'm just saying there "probably" isn't as much demand for OTA DVR as there is for a cable/satellite DVRs. I've listed the reasons of why I arrived at that conclusions already, and obviously you disagree which is completely fine by me.
 

bicker

DTVUSA Member
#14
Just a heads-up: TiVo has recently signed an agreement with entertainment metadata supplier Rovi. Details of the nature of the agreement are, of course, proprietary, but speculation includes perhaps TiVo working to replace Tribune Media Services as their supplier for program information with Rovi.
 

NYCLA*

DTVUSA Member
#15
I guess OTA viewers then wouldn't have been inclined to buy VCR's either. That's why Dish built timers that work in conjunction with VCR's in their digital to analog converters. /sarcasm

Sales may be a part of why Dish/Echostar might discontinue the Pal DVR. They certainly have done *nothing* to promote or advertise it. However, I can't help but think that the Tivo patent lawsuits currently going on, as well as a simple change in thought over the strategy of selling such a device are bigger factors. I think they eventually maybe wanted to use it as a lure to get OTA viewers to subscribe to satellite - the box has a built in smart card slot that is unused. But maybe they felt they were just encouraging people to not subscribe to their service with such a device. Any way you slice it, it's a real shame.
 
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EscapeVelocity

Moderator, , Webmaster of EV's Antenna Blog
#16
I agree with bicker, while I particularly may want more DVR choices for OTA, the market just isnt there, as can be seen by other products quickly discontinued, like the Sony and LG OTA DVRs.
 

98clru

DTVUSA Jr. Member
#18
So which one? You think OTA viewers would rather have nothing at all or they'd rather have a Tivo? Secondly, if you're an OTA viewer, you have no need for a QAM tuner. And thirdly, while the Pal DVR gets is EPG from PSIP or TVGOS, Tivo gets theirs from Tribune. Cable and Satellite also get their EPG data from third parties. You're just not making any sense :confused:
Been using a tivo HD for OTA since april, dropped cable a month later after I found tivo exceeded my hopes. One of my inspirations to go with the tivo OTA is my cable provider requires an HD tuner to get one of the OTA channels I really wanted (MHZ). With all the fees to get an HD dvr I was spending $80/month. To help inspire me Brighthouse totally screwed up the firmware on their hd dvrs.

I hated to shell out all the money I did but we are much happier with the tivo than we were with Brighthouse. In 8 months my tivo will have been paid off with the savings ($175 w/tax on clearance at sears, $400 lifetime subscription, already had an antenna for all those cable outages) and I don't have to worry about outages caused by weather (lightning does cause a bit of pixelation but only a second or two). No monthly (seemed that way) price increases so it will probably take even less than 8 months.
I still find I don't have enough time to watch all that I record but I have 3 pbs stations available with 2 or three subchannels each that I find things of interest on.

Adding the free RSS and utube downloads and $9/month netflix streaming to tivo I definitely have too much to watch. Of course if you don't have broadband those aren't options to you but I doubt many posters here don't have broadband.

The program guide is much better than brighthouse too.

I was anxiously awaiting the DTVPal but knowing that dish didn't stand behind it (if you get a lemon you are stuck if it dies right after warrantee) I figured there was a fair possibility I could have a $250 doorstop. I'm sure many that tried the DTVPal dvr wish they had spent a little more and gotten much more from Tivo.

I don't need the qam tuner, but that gives me the option if I decide cable becomes so attractive I can't resist or increases the resale value if their should be a truely worthy dvr that is much better. Doubt quam capability is that big an expense. You can pick up a atsc/quam capable tuning card for PC for less than $45, if you don't want/need qam you would only save $7. For $14 it's worth it to have the option.
 

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