Dish-tenna: Greatest Antenna Ever Invented!

#1
Well, that's what they say anyway. I thought it was time to shake things up again. It appears they're putting a hyphen now, in the middle of "Dishtenna."

So I found the patent nobody could find before: https://www.google.com/patents/US8175515 . Though they say it was granted in 2010, the U.S. patent office says it was issued in May of 2012. It didn't appear in a google patent search for some months after that. Armed with the patent number, you can find it on the official patent office site, but the info is a little easier to see on Google's copy.

There is reference to (at least two) capacitive hats. I TRIED to tell you guys that might be a possibility way back in July of 2012 (proof: http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/47304-antenna-recommendation.html post #29) but nooooooo, the experts preferred the flux capacitor theory. :becky:

It's basically just a patent on a way to convert a satellite dish to OTA operation. There's also an application for an international patent.

You can see some pretty pictures, and write ups on their executives here:
Leadership - DTV Green Dish

Searches on linkedin and elsewhere turn up little of interest on these leaders. They don't appear to be major players, but the company is looking for investors, and their executive summary appears to have some new claims, to wit:

"The Company’s patented technology and ensuing communication DTV Green Dish hybrid product has been successfully sold and tested in 143 different US locations and 26 states. The Company’s hybrid antenna is the only product with a range of at least twice as long as any competitor on the market today and can be easily installed by its end-user virtually anywhere due to its proprietary signal finder. It can penetrate most concrete walls and other substrates and can receive up to 100 channels and connect up to 8 televisions using one hybrid antenna. As opposed to DirecTV and Dish Network, the DTV Green Dish product has broadcast HD capabilities far superior to cable and satellite products and will never go out in rainstorms, hail storms or inclement weather.

The DTV Green Dish product, which is the first hybrid antenna ever developed, is multi-directional and can be easily adjusted and converted from directional to Omni directional in order to receive channels from multiple locations by utilizing its side lobes. Its Ultra Wide Band features provide the capabilities to receive multi-frequencies (50 to 800 Mhz and 800 Hmz to 3Ghz), as well as in the Super High Bands ranges for future application use such as cellular and Wi-Fi frequencies. The DTV Green Dish unique product is only 18 inches in diameter, made of heavy duty construction and built to DBS and military standards. All of its parts are manufactured exclusively, including its total packaging, with recycled materials.
"

I know "range" isn't a precisely scientific term, but I still think they could get into trouble with the claim "range of at least twice as long as any competitor on the market today."

http://www.dtvgreendish.com/files/Dish-Tenna-Executive-Summary-10.24.13.pdf

If they can raise $5 million in capital, they expect to make $6 million+ in profits by year 3, though they projected a loss for year 1. Not sure if year 1 was 2012 or 2013.

Rick
 

Fringe Reception

Super Moderator, Chief Content Editor
Staff member
#2
Ricki,

Good follow-up :thumb:!

As I wrote before, if they offered our Forum a copy for testing by our primary members, we could pass it around and IF IT WORKS AS PROMISED ... I (for one) would buy my own copy and promote it ... in fact, I would probably become a dedicated installer, plus I would be very tempted to buy stock in their Company because I know a winner when I see one.

It is troubling when I read: "Its Ultra Wide Band features provide the capabilities to receive multifrequencies
(50 to 800 Mhz and 800 Hmz to 3Ghz), as well as in the Super High Bands ranges for future application use such as cellular and Wi-Fi frequencies".


May I assume by this wording they are also promoting this as a Six-Meter Ham Radio antenna? The Six-Meter band covers 50-54 mHz and the wavelength of the RF signals are literally six meters (duh) or around 19 foot waves: conventional antenna theory suggests a properly designed 'quarter-wave' antenna is the smallest antenna that is efficient (5 feet wide, 5 feet tall or both). It is highly unlikely an 18" dish would be an efficient receiving antenna at those frequencies.

In their post, why break it up and not write 50 mHz to 3 gHz? Secondly, what is 800 Hmz to 3Ghz? Hmz?

Still, I hope they offer us one for testing.

Jim
 
#3
As I wrote before, if they offered our Forum a copy for testing by our primary members, we could pass it around and IF IT WORKS AS PROMISED ... I (for one) would buy my own copy and promote it ...
Balls in your court for that one. I gave it the old college try 18 months ago. They wanted me to come to Florida with my 4221HD, where the location, conditions and camera crew would be 100% under their control.

in fact, I would probably become a dedicated installer, plus I would be very tempted to buy stock in their Company because I know a winner when I see one.
All I can say is caveat emptor! Remember the guy said they ask customers not to post reviews? I guess that's the secret as to why they don't sell the dish on Amazon. Veeeeery curious marketing strategy...

It is troubling when I read: "Its Ultra Wide Band features provide the capabilities to receive multifrequencies
(50 to 800 Mhz and 800 Hmz to 3Ghz), as well as in the Super High Bands ranges for future application use such as cellular and Wi-Fi frequencies".


May I assume by this wording they are also promoting this as a Six-Meter Ham Radio antenna? The Six-Meter band covers 50-54 mHz and the wavelength of the RF signals are literally six meters (duh) or around 19 foot waves: conventional antenna theory suggests a properly designed 'quarter-wave' antenna is the smallest antenna that is efficient (5 feet wide, 5 feet tall or both). It is highly unlikely an 18" dish would be an efficient receiving antenna at those frequencies.

In their post, why break it up and not write 50 mHz to 3 gHz? Secondly, what is 800 Hmz to 3Ghz? Hmz?
You noticed! More questions than answers, eh?

Rick
 

Jim5506

DTVUSA Member
#4
The physics of these things just don't make sense.

A modified bow-tie element with a mismatched reflector.

Compare to a "real" UHF antenna that we know actually works, the reflector is undersized for the elements and probably too close to the elements.

Looks like they are trying to raise money, but I would not invest in this.
 
#7
I almost hate to bring up what I feel is a reputable company, but have any of you ever looked at Winegard's patent on the Flatwave. It would appear to be about the cosmetic decorative appearance.
Claims(1)
The ornamental design for a flat antenna for digital television reception, as shown.
Patent USD656131 - Flat antenna for digital television reception - Google Patents
I'm not quite certain, but it would seem to me if I copy it, and hide the ornamental design of the internal elements that I would not have infringed upon their patent.
 
#8
I'm not quite certain, but it would seem to me if I copy it, and hide the ornamental design of the internal elements that I would not have infringed upon their patent.
I'm puzzled by your interpretation. To me, it seems clear the word "ornamental" is a modifier in the sentence. Suppose it read something like this: "CLAIM The visually appealing design for a flat antenna for digital television reception, as shown."

Patents are normally constructed "broadly," which means if you're not sure, it's probably covered. The idea is that a company need not divulge a trade secret in order to patent that secret. Besides, they probably pay their lawyers more than you do. :icon_beat:

Did you notice the Mohu Leaf is specifically mentioned in the patent? I'm guessing that was added by the examiner.

IANAL,
Rick
 

Jim5506

DTVUSA Member
#9
This is a minor re-interpretation of the old one bay bow-tie type antenna and it may work slightly better, given the extra "whiskers" there to harmonize with the RF in the air.

Like so many "patents" today it is hardly inspired, just a tweak of an old design, the patent office probably should have rejected it but they sort of operate on the premise of "let the courts sort it out".
 

James

DTVUSA Member
#10
Review#1. here a couple of TV guys install and try out the Dishtenna. Seems to work for these guys in their location. It will be interesting to see what others say!

"Where the HT Guys live is quite far from our local Los Angeles broadcast towers on Mount Wilson. In Braden’s case, antennaweb.org reports that there is no known antenna capable of picking up any channels over the air. The exact quote is: “Due to factors such as terrain and distance to broadcasting towers, signal strength calculations have predicted no television stations may be reliably received at this location.” A quick check at tvfool.com shows that most stations are beyond reach, with those that are available being listed in red (barely attainable). Ara previously had to put up a Yagi Antenna with a 9 foot boom to get his over-the-air channels to work.

Once the professional installation was done at both HT Guys locations, we were shocked and amazed to see how many channels we were picking up. At Braden’s house we were able to get all the red stations from tvfool.com as well as a couple of the gray ones.
Ara had some geographical issues that made reception difficult. He had a small hill with a house directly in the line of sight of the towers. Still with this limitation the Distenna was able to pick up most of the UHF channels. But the main reason Ara was interested in the antenna was to pick up ABC and Fox which reverted to VHF after the analog shutdown. The installer was able to tweak the antenna to pick up ABC (VHF 7) which shocked Ara, but that caused many of the other channels to disappear.
Feeling that he would never get all the major networks regardless of technology in a last ditch effort, Ara swung the Dishtenna around almost 180 degrees towards the sunny and beautiful city of San Diego more than 90 miles away! Bam! All the San Diego channels, including one with a transmitter in Mexico, came in. Here’s the weird thing, the Dishtenna started picking up LA ABC and Fox! Not all the time but the 9 foot Yagi never picked them up ever!
Ara did feel bad about losing his LA channels but then he thought the two antennas are pointing in different directions why not combine them. For that he used a Channel Plus 2512 DC + IR Passing 2-Way Splitter/Combiner it goes for about $10. And now Ara gets San Diego and LA OTA channels
The last install detail for Ara is that he runs the output of the splitter/combiner into a 4-way splitter that feeds his HD Homerun (two tuners), Slingbox, and Panasonic Plasma TV.
This performance only comes after a couple hours of getting the antennas installed and replacing the cables running into the house. But once all the hard work is done, you can sit back and watch one of hundreds of different stations (if you like multi-cast stations).
Conclusion

We were skeptical about how well the Dishtenna would work for us and were amazed at how well it exceeded our expectations. The professional installation is a must because the unit tends to be a bit fussy if you don’t have it set up just right. If you’re looking for a way to get free over-the-air television without installing a 9 foot antenna on your roof, the dishtenna could actually do the job for you. It did for us."

HDTV Magazine - HDTV and Home Theater Podcast - Podcast #539: DTV Green Dish – Dishtenna Review
 
#11
James, this is very old news. We went through all this 18 months ago. The HT ("Home Theatre") Guys are not nearly as qualified to test and review an antenna as half a dozen experts on the staff here. There is nothing magical about a 9 foot yagi, if it's not correctly positioned, pointed and equipped with appropriate cables. The Green thing was professionally installed by someone with a signal meter. The Yagi had been sitting there unused for years. We offered to test and review the Green Dish, and they refused. They didn't want people with professional experience to even look at one. We could buy one and try it out, but it's exorbitantly expensive, and the money back guaranty only applies if you use their installers -- then the cost for installing is nonrefundable. In other words, the money back guarantee is a sham.

Finally, Dan Rivera (CEO at the time, and "inventor") refused to divulge ANY basic information about the product. He would not divulge even the patent number (obviously defeating the purpose of the patent), nor any gain, beam width, or front to back ratios, all of which are standard data for every U.S. antenna manufacturer. He also told the HT Guys not to divulge any information. They would not even give us the TV Fool reports for their locations, though they claimed to have used them, and would not list the stations reliably received with the Green Dish.

In short, nothing about this product, or their behavior, or their marketing strategy, makes any sense. None of the experts on other forums specializing in OTA reception have given this product as much serious attention as we have. Here is a google search that will turn up several loooooong threads about it:

site:dtvusaforum.com dishtenna

Rick
 

James

DTVUSA Member
#12
Good to know. Based on everything you antenna guys write about..it can't really work..well. I remember seeing an antenna that sliped over your existing dish. It looked like a curved heating element to me. Haha. So much for the signal magnet...wait..do you think putting a magnet on an antenna will attract the signals? Patented signal-bending technology?
 

MrPogi

Moderator, , Webmaster of Cache Free TV
Staff member
#13
A few notes on the HTguys review:


  1. AntennaWeb is a joke. It shows ONE channel for me, a Daystar channel that has not broadcast in over a year. I get over 30 channels easily, not counting subchannels.
  2. The link they provide to their TVfool goes nowhere - just to TVfool, not to a reception report.
  3. I can get channels in the grey range, too - with a 4 bay, from 90 miles away, 1-edge. A 4 bay antenna costs $30 - $60, no magic antenna needed...(I use a pre-amp only because I split the signal 6 ways.)
I believe that the patent is about a method of modifying an old satellite dish to recieve OTA TV - nothing more. No great technical advances here.
 

Fringe Reception

Super Moderator, Chief Content Editor
Staff member
#14
#15
Now that the patent is available to see, it's nothing more than a patent for mechanically converting a dish into a "OTA antenna". The patent's drawings aren't even the same as the elements pictured on the seller's website and the patent makes no claims about antenna performance whatsoever. He might as well have a patent about how to tie a shoelace!

Still a joke...
 

Fringe Reception

Super Moderator, Chief Content Editor
Staff member
#16
... So much for the signal magnet...wait..do you think putting a magnet on an antenna will attract the signals? Patented signal-bending technology?
No, magnets do not attract or improve RF signals. Does anyone here actually believe magnets or copper wrist bands can reverse arthritis?

Jim : )
 
#17
There goes my anniversary gift idea for the Mrs.! (copper wrist bands)

It does bring up what exactly the technical background of the folks who grant these patents is/are! Sometimes, I just wonder. Of course it is better than the patent attempts by Apple! What I find really annoying are the companies who just buy up as many patents as they can find in order to litigate other folks/companies who have developed their ideas entirely separate from the patent process in order to make a quick buck.
 

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