Hospital defends secretly deporting patient

EscapeVelocity

Moderator, , Webmaster of EV's Antenna Blog
#1
This country is going down the ************ter, fast. Why is this even an issue? Why are American courts backing the proposition that the hospital did wrong?

You want health care reform and savings, there is your savings right there. Who do you think pays for this crap?

Good Lord!


STUART, Fla. - All sides agree on one thing in the case of a South Florida hospital that secretly repatriated a seriously brain injured patient back to Guatemala.

During the early hours of a steamy July 2003 morning, Martin Memorial Medical Center chartered a private plane and sent Luis Jimenez back to the Central American country without telling his relatives in the U.S. or Guatemala — even as his cousin and legal guardian, Montejo Gaspar, frantically sought to stop the move.

There, things get murky. Gaspar is suing the hospital for essentially deporting Jimenez, who was an illegal immigrant. The hospital, which spent more than $1.5 million on his care over three years, says Jimenez wanted to go home.

continued...

Hospital defends secretly deporting patient - Health care- msnbc.com
 

Jason Fritz

Administrator
Staff member
#2
here lies the problem that I have with South Florida Hospital,

Because Jimenez has diminished capacity to make decisions, Gaspar was named as his legal guardian.
The hospital made a decision to deport without the legal guardian or court's consent.

I'm on the fence with whether the US healthcare system needs an overhaul...and I do not like what I've seen so far of Obama's one trillion dollar plan. I think the obvious question remains, who will foot the bill if we are to cover uninsured patients.
 

EscapeVelocity

Moderator, , Webmaster of EV's Antenna Blog
#3
I pro Universal Health Care and for serious Health Care Reform to boot. However, we cant literally cover everybody on the planet who gets here and overstays their Visa.....or worse sneeks in without one.

This state of affairs is the workings off the New Left since the 60s. Its going to destroy Western Civilization if we let it.

And the answer isnt just to make them US citizens....and reap the votes (that is what the Western Left has been doing importing voters, advocating special priveleges for them as minority groups and stoking fear, resentment, and entitlemnt within these groups to keep them voting Left. I could write volumes about the cultural treason of the Western Left.
 
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EscapeVelocity

Moderator, , Webmaster of EV's Antenna Blog
#4
Here is a good article that outlines some of the reasons I favor Universal Health Care and Health Care reform.

December 12, 2007
A Conservative Case for Universal Health Coverage
By Randall Hoven

American Thinker: A Conservative Case for Universal Health Coverage

And here is a good documentary that Ive posted before about different Health Care Systems...

Frontline: Sick Around the World

Five Capitalist Democracies and How They Do It

Each has a health care system that delivers health care for everyone -- but with remarkable differences.

FRONTLINE: sick around the world: five capitalist democracies & how they do it | PBS
Video on the tabs up top "Watch Online"
 

EscapeVelocity

Moderator, , Webmaster of EV's Antenna Blog
#5
I dont think the American Left and their Democrat Party and the Business Interest Lobby Groups can produce a decent Health Care Reform or Universal Health Care scheme.

That being said....

I favor the German style, as I think that we can actually transition to something like that here, from where we are now. But each of these countries have their interesting bits. I wish they had covered France as well. Im no Francophile (huge understatement) but I admire their healthcare system.
 

Aaron62

Contributor
Staff member
#6
I'm with you 100% EV. Why are my tax dollars continuing to support illegal criminals and their health care? I say we send the hospital bill to these people's country of origin.

What really ************es me off is when you hear stories of a immigrant causing a car accident and lacking insurance to cover themselves, the damage to the other persons car, the other persons bodily injuries. People; we pay for it all and it happens everyday. I see a lot of crap here in California every day and it's not getting any better.
 

1inxs

DTVUSA Member
#7
Under Obama's Health Invasion Plan, illegal residents in the USA would also receive free insurance and we would continue to fork out $500,000.00 a year for Jimenez and others like him. We don't need to throw the baby out with the bath water. If we allowed Health Savings Accounts to all US citizens, and only kept insurance for catastrophic needs, the US health care would be fine. The US Health care system could use tweaking, not reinvention.
 

1inxs

DTVUSA Member
#8
What health coverage do you have?

Mine is way past tweaking.
I insure my family through an HMO that goes by the name select:med

HMO (Health Maintenance Organization). A health insurance plan or organization that provides a wide range of comprehensive healthcare services through a network of doctors, hospitals, labs, etc. who agree to provide services to HMO members at a pre-negotiated rate. As a member of an HMO, you will need to see your primary care physician for care or a referral to a specialist, except in case of emergency. Your choice of doctors is often restricted to those in the network. As an HMO member, if you don't use the healthcare providers that participate in your plan's network, you will usually bear the full cost of these services.
My wife uses the insurance a lot. I'm quite healthy so I personally don't use it much. It has copays for the normal office visits and a $1500.00 deductible for the family. If we go in for a hang nail we pay. If we have a major issue we pay the deductible and the insurance kicks in with a portion of the remainder of the expenses. If we were allowed Health Savings Accounts, we would be set up quite nicely. It would cover the deductible and what the insurance doesn't cover.
 

jerseygirl

DTVUSA Member
#9
As now living for nearly four years in Germany, I enjoy their system.
It is easy for the whole family.
First a part of my husband and my monthly earnings is directly given to the health insurance. Second - we have a separate health insurance for special things which we have chosen for ourselves.

If one of our kids get the flu I take them to the doctor. All I have to pay for it is 10 Euros (only every 3 month and if you visit the doctor) and a little share if I buy a medicament on recipe for the kids (usually around 5 Euro) . That is it.
Not a Cent more to be paid.

Had to make a few fillings and a two caps on my teeth. Needed the special insurance for it. First they checked if I have good taken care for my teeth during the 4 years of insurance and them they told me that the filling were paid by normal health insurance and only the caps would have been paid by them.

I ended up paying 300 Euros for the caps and all the work done for it as self-behalf.

Believe me I have wonderful new caps (not these cheap crappy once) and they told me if I do not have to wait if I need more teeth done this year.

Have already said to my husband that we all will have fixed up our teeth before we get back to US.

It is cheaper, better and you got "Made in Germany" here - and that is quite amazing work.

:playball:
 

Aaron62

Contributor
Staff member
#10
As now living for nearly four years in Germany, I enjoy their system.
It is easy for the whole family.
First a part of my husband and my monthly earnings is directly given to the health insurance. Second - we have a separate health insurance for special things which we have chosen for ourselves.

If one of our kids get the flu I take them to the doctor. All I have to pay for it is 10 Euros (only every 3 month and if you visit the doctor) and a little share if I buy a medicament on recipe for the kids (usually around 5 Euro) . That is it.
Not a Cent more to be paid.
Is that pretty standard for German citizens or is that because of you husband's employer? How are the emergency rooms there?

One thing that Obama admin. is claiming is that with a universal hospital insurance, there will be less crowding in emergency rooms but I think it's going to be a mess for other care providers. There are too many factors and I think the Government is just messing with something that they shouldn't be. We all know the Government's track record when taking over a businesses so what's going to make healthcare reform any diferent.
 

EscapeVelocity

Moderator, , Webmaster of EV's Antenna Blog
#11
Im more or less with Piggie on this. However the insurance comapanies arent soley to blaim for the high cost of health insurance. (Though I certainly agree that their actuarial pools and policies need to be regulated so that they dont cherry pick individuals and charge different rates to the self employed or non large corporation).

We need medical tort reform badly (tort reform in general). Litigation is stiffling innovation and vastly increasing the cost of health care. And its not even the high dollar lawsuit awards that are the primary driver of health insurance cost inflation (though they certainly do their part). Its the billions of (just in case someone might sue us lets cover our arses tests).

And another thing, why arent highly experienced nurses allowed more room to practice medicine. I know rural areas that have no doctors that would love to have an experienced RN serving them.
 

EscapeVelocity

Moderator, , Webmaster of EV's Antenna Blog
#12
The German system is a great compromise system. It has private participation as well as government. Its basic insurance plans are regulated by the government....and you can spend more on extra coverage in the private market if you choose to do so.

Piggie, my gripe isnt that rich people get more and better service....that is just the facts of life everywhere. Its that people are falling through the cracks with no healthcare.....or stop gap health care. And there is no reason given the amount of money we spend (and yes those numbers are correct, we spend as much government money as the Germans on our half arsed Medicaid, Medicare, and other health programs as they do on their whole health care system (inneffecient as all get out)....then spend even more than that figure (more than doubling the total cost) in the private sector)....that we have a 1/2 million people being bankrupted every year by medical expenses.

Unfreakinbelievable.

And the Pharmaceutical companies are once again getting their way, no price negotiation for drug purchases by the public plan. The Democrats arent going to produce a good system....you can bet on that one.
 

EscapeVelocity

Moderator, , Webmaster of EV's Antenna Blog
#14
So in a since we have a system for this that is under used for some reason without me knowing why.
I would guess that lawsuits are the main culprit.....lawyers driving at nurses being underqualified and therefore negligent.
 

EscapeVelocity

Moderator, , Webmaster of EV's Antenna Blog
#15
Check out the Massachusetts Plan, that was instituted under Romney. I think Romney would have been a much better president than Obama. Romneys Business and Executive experience and his bipartisan success in Massachusetts would have been welcome at the top. We now have a inexperienced amateur that rose through the system on racial politics.
 

EscapeVelocity

Moderator, , Webmaster of EV's Antenna Blog
#16
The Dems want to pay for this out of money they cut in other budgets. Well Medicare Part D is a scam. The Pharma lobby made sure in the Medicare D bill there was no provision to get the best price to the government for medicines. This is costing the taxpayer billions. The VA buys the same drugs from the same companies (both are the govt right?) for half the cost they are sold to Medicare D.
This is the way its going down as of now with the Reform bill. No negotiations. Germany's public plans negotiate. In a sense, US citizens are subsidizing drugs for the rest of the world.
 

EscapeVelocity

Moderator, , Webmaster of EV's Antenna Blog
#17
The only answer for the US, though I think there are merits to the German system, is a single payer system similar to the UK. I don't think the German system can work here with the greed and size of the lobbies.
I think that is the worst system of the 5 that were discussed in the video I posted. Canada is a near duplicate of that system.

Furthermore, that would be the most difficult to transition to....making it far more unlikely that it would ever be implemented.

The German system is feasable, because with the government offering public plans, the inusurance comapanies will be forced to compete. Sure some will specialize in offering plans that cover extras that the government plans dont include...but the competition from the government taxpayer subisidized plans will drive down costs. Some even say that the public plan is a stalking horse for transitioning to a single payer system (even some proponents of a single payer system see the public plan with private competition as a tactic/strategy for moving eventually to a single payer system. Its certainly a possibility.
 

EscapeVelocity

Moderator, , Webmaster of EV's Antenna Blog
#18
I agree the health inusrance industry, medical industry, and pharma will all be stumbling blocks, but health care reform and universal health care is a winning issue for the Democrats....if they can deliver (and Im not enthusiastic that they can deliver a good reform and universal health care package) then the voters will support them and it....no matter that these industry lobby groups may pull donations.

Power to the people.
 

EscapeVelocity

Moderator, , Webmaster of EV's Antenna Blog
#19
Did you watch the video?

In France, medical students dont pay for their education.....however they dont get paid big big bucks either.....but they dont have mal practice insurance through the roof to worry about either.

France has a good system.
 
#20
@aaron62

It is standard to pay a share for the health system every month. This has nothing to do with your employment.

The cost for my tooth operations were paid by an extra insurance which comes up 50 Euro each month.

Emergency rooms look like the Americans- because a big bunch of the machines there is build in Germany.

And one thing is better in Germany. There are not examination rooms with are separated with curtains. They have extra rooms for each examination.

If you want to take a closer look- here is a hospital my husband was in for a few days:

Klinikum Delmenhorst | Allgemeines | Klinik-Filme |
 
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