In the past few weeks, anti-Muslim voices have become deafening.

bicker

DTVUSA Member
#1

Harnessing Love’s Power to Stop Oppression

In the past few weeks, anti-Muslim voices have become deafening. In some cases, these same voices are the ones casting aspersions against immigrants, LGBT people, and people of color. Thankfully, several prominent individuals have spoken out in support of religious freedom, including family members of those who were killed on Sept. 11, 2001, and conservatives like former solicitor general Ted Olson, NJ Governor Chris Christie, and former GOP Rep. Vin Weber.

President Obama has also spoken out. When speaking to a group of Muslims dining at the White House, he said: “This is America. Our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country, and that they will not be treated differently by their government, is essential to who we are.”

Will you send a message to President Obama urging him to remain steadfast, continue to speak out against anti-Muslim hysteria, and vocally support religious freedom?

The Standing on the Side of Love campaign is founded on the ideal of a world where no one is denied freedom or equality because of who they are, whether they have been marginalized because of their sexual orientation, gender identity, national origin, gender, disability, or any other fundamental aspect of their identity — including their religion.

This past weekend, anti-immigrant activists staged rallies in Texas and Arizona, with some holding up Confederate flags, and Nazi swastikas. A nondenominational church in Gainesville, Fla. is hosting an “International Burn a Quran Day” on the ninth anniversary of the September 11, 2001 attacks. Protests are happening nationwide against the proposed expansion of a Muslim cultural center that has been in downtown Manhattan for 27 years, but has outgrown its present location.

On the heels of increasing anti-immigrant rhetoric, the prevalence of Muslim-bashing is even more alarming. I believe we must take action.

Email him today expressing your desire for all Americans – including Muslims – to feel welcome in the communities they live in, and free to worship as they choose.

When we stand on the side of love, we agree to not turn a blind eye to bigotry, oppression and discrimination. We share our highest ideals and allow ourselves to be inspired by others in our community. We take action to make life better for those who are marginalized. And we speak as people of faith who value acceptance, equality, and above all else, love.

In partnership and equality,
Urge President Obama to Remain Steadfast « Standing On The Side Of Love

This is an issue very close to my heart. This country has come so far in terms of achieving the vision of our Founding Fathers for a nation where the free exercise of one's own religion is assured. Please search your own heart and take the time to implore the President to stand firm on this issue, and not permit callous intolerance to regain any ground.
 

FOX TV

Contributor
#2
Anti-Muslim voices have become deafening, for many legitimate reasons !!

Urge President Obama to Remain Steadfast « Standing On The Side Of Love

This is an issue very close to my heart. This country has come so far in terms of achieving the vision of our Founding Fathers for a nation where the free exercise of one's own religion is assured. Please search your own heart and take the time to implore the President to stand firm on this issue, and not permit callous intolerance to regain any ground.
Ok, so the U.S. Constitution matters to you when it concerns an issue you are in favor of, but at other times concerning other issues......If the Muslims who want to build this masque cared at all about the feelings of its "Host Country" (The USA) they would voluntarily find another place to build. This is nothing but a chance for them to declare "Victory" over the 9-11-2001 attacks, and everyone knows it. One may find a comparison to the victory flag we planted in Iwo Jima that stands for the victory we had accomplished there.. Surely based solely on the laws as written ,they have a LEGAL right to build there, but there are moral considerations they are purposely ignoring in order to plunge the knife of 9-11-2001 a lot deeper than it has already been done.

If the Muslim population of this country had any backbone, they would denounce all of the radicalism that has taken over their religion, but they have not done so since 9-11-2001, and that makes people suspicious of the entire religion and its motives when they could ease a lot of that tension just by doing so. This is a deliberate and intentional mission to spread more hate and discontent towards the American people, and there is no way one can truthfully deny that. There are many other places to build a mosque in that area of New York according to Google Earth, but that is not their desire. Their desire is to spread more hate and discontent towards the American people, and especially the citizens of New York, and those who lost loved ones.

There is already an over abundance of mosques in that part of NY City, and there are many other vacant buildings in the area that would suit their needs, so why not choose one of them? Because we all know why they want to put it there. A piece of landing gear ended up on top of this building during the attacks, and that makes it hallowed ground as far as the survivors are concerned, and it SHOULD NOT BE BUILT there !!

These people have a long term goal of taking this country down from the inside, which if you read and keep current, you would already know that. They have completed several steps into succeeding with that plan, after all, we already have a Muslim President, and a judge in New Jersey upholding Sharia law, by allowing a Muslim man to repeatedly rape his wife against her wishes. An American Citizen would have been jailed for doing the very same thing to his wife. Why do these people think they can come to this country and ignore our laws and substitute their own laws in this land of the free, who already have the laws of this land in place to live by, and some of the bleeding hearts in this country seem to agree with them that they should have that "Right".

We are a nation of laws, and we are expected to abide by them, but certain groups of Non Citizens seem to be exempt from them such as the messiah himself who loves to ignore the U.S. Constitution at every turn, but in typical hypocritical fashion, they are trying to prosecute Rod Blagojevich for the same thing. Anyone with morals and respect would drop the plan to build a masque at that location, simply due to the public outrage that it has generated, and out of respect for the country and its people. Muslims basically practice an uncivilized religion, that has no respect for God given human rights, as can be proven by the way they treat their women.

Sharia law should be banned in this country. These are not nice people, and they despise the American way of life, and are hell bent on changing this land to suit their twisted view of human rights, and they should never be allowed to practice a religion that ignores the laws of this land. They should be allowed to practice their religion to the limits of the laws of this nation, and no farther. When any religion purposely disobeys the laws of this land, it then fails to be a religion and becomes criminal. WE ARE A NATION OF LAWS, AND WE DON'T NEED A NEW SUBSET OF LAWS IN DIRECT CONFLICT TO THE EXISTING LAWS, PERIOD !!!

A masque in Germany that was frequented in the past by Mohamed Atta was raided and closed down by German authorities just this week, now the Germans seem to "Get IT", but it is hard to overcome the SHEEPLE attitude of a lot of the bleeding hearts in this country who claim that the Muslim religion is one of peace..I say Bullshi-, and there is no way they can believe in peace when they do so much to make sure there is no peace for their enemies, or their women. Barbarians and hypocrites abound in the Muslim religion, and sorry, I just dropped my last Imam in the toilet and flushed it !!

You can bash Dick Cheney and President Bush all you want, but hey did keep us safe from the "Sand People" after 9-11-2001, and I am sure if they had not taken the "Cowboy" attitude towards them, more attacks would have followed.

Maybe we should just let them build it there, and fly a remote control drone into it, now that would be the ultimate case of poetic justice !! Anyone have a spare drone in their garage? Hell, I would contribute and help pay for the drone !!! These people HATE US, and the only way to defeat them is to HATE THEM BACK WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE !! Do the Islamic terrorists, or the Islamic Religion itself "Stand on the side of LOVE?" I would bet not !!
 
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bicker

DTVUSA Member
#3
Ok, so the U.S. Constitution matters to you when it concerns an issue you are in favor of, but at other times concerning other issues.
The US Constitution always matters to me. You're evidently wrong about what you think the US Constitution says. I've pointed out where you've been wrong many times in the past.

Regardless, this is a matter of human rights, not something petty like money or teevee. So even your lame attempt to draw a parallel is offensive.

If the Muslims who want to build this masque cared at all about the feelings of its "Host Country" (The USA)
This comment is patently ignorant and morally offensive. The Muslims who want to build this Mosque are Americans. The folks who want to build this Mosque are led by Feisal Abdul Rauf, a naturalized American citizen. This isn't a "Host Country" - this is their country every bit as much as it is your country or mine.

If the Muslim population of this country had any backbone, they would denounce all of the radicalism that has taken over their religion
This Imam you're condemning is someone who has done exactly as you say, but you didn't know that.

They have completed several steps into succeeding with that plan, after all, we already have a Muslim President
This is an ignorant statement - utterly erroneous and offensive to both the President and to Muslims. It reflects exactly the kind of un-American attitudes that Standing Up For Love fights against.

Your misguided and myopic diatribe is rife with such falsehoods and intolerance for others as to be totally reprehensible beyond description.
 

Jason Fritz

Administrator
Staff member
#4
I'm going to ask the both of you to consider your responses from this point forward, otherwise this thread will be locked.

- Keep responses tied to the thread/issue.
- No personal attacks
- Remember, you're not going to persuade anyone to change their mind.
 

FOX TV

Contributor
#5
Jay, I will respect your request, but will still voice my opinion.

The US Constitution always matters to me. You're evidently wrong about what you think the US Constitution says. I've pointed out where you've been wrong many times in the past.

Regardless, this is a matter of human rights, not something petty like money or teevee. So even your lame attempt to draw a parallel is offensive.


As it matters to me, and I am not wrong on what it says, and that is why I carry a copy of it and the Bill of rights in my truck, and they were provided to me by the Heritage Foundation http://www.heritagefoundation.com/, so I can counter statements made contrary to those documents, such as some of those made by you. It is all in how you interpret those documents, and that is why Supreme Court Judges need to have term limits.

This comment is patently ignorant and morally offensive. The Muslims who want to build this Mosque are Americans. The folks who want to build this Mosque are led by Feisal Abdul Rauf, a naturalized American citizen. This isn't a "Host Country" - this is their country every bit as much as it is your country or mine.

Yeah, I am sure you will say that every statement I make is ignorant just because you don't agree with it, but that doesn't make your viewpoint any more correct than mine, as it is only your opinion, just as it is only mine. Offensive, I couldn't care less about being offensive when you look at the history of this troubled religion as they call it. "The Muslims who want to build this Mosque are Americans" If that were really true, they would try to find some where else to erect their "victory" monument to the 9-11-2001 attacks, given the sanctity of that piece of real estate to most all "Real Americans"

These people do not care in the least bit about human rights, and just treat women as animals with no rights given to them at all, and you think I should not be "Offensive" toward them. Think again, because that is one of the main faults I hold against them. Hell, they may as well just hook them to plows and work them like beasts of burden, as that is how they view women, and you want to defend them? Where is the compassion you claim to have in your 'Standing on the side of love" campaign, when they deny the rights of Muslim women in this FREE NATION?

This Imam you're condemning is someone who has done exactly as you say, but you didn't know that.

He made a statement on TEEVEE, that the USA was partially responsible for the 9-11-2001 attacks, How can you as a citizen of this free nation, actually support this kind of statement from a religious leader who wants to subvert our laws and replace them with Sharia Law? Barbarians run amok in the Muslim Religion, and they want to force their beliefs on the people of this country? A say bring on the drones...They seem to work fairly well !!

This is an ignorant statement - utterly erroneous and offensive to both the President and to Muslims. It reflects exactly the kind of un-American attitudes that Standing Up For Love fights against.

Your misguided and myopic diatribe is rife with such falsehoods and intolerance for others as to be totally reprehensible beyond description.


Offensive to the President; I couldn't care less about that either. Where is your proof that he is American born? Where is your proof that he is Christian as he claims? Where is your proof that Muslims are friendly to America? Where is the proof that he is not a Muslim? Reverend Wrights church did not advocate Christian beliefs. If he had nothing to hide, why haven,t we seen his birth certificate? If he is SOOO American, why does he refuse to provide it for the public to see?

Offensive to the President? I still couldn't care less about that, for he has done many things that are offensive to me and the American Public alike, and he has no care or compassion for the American people, and does not hold back on his offensive statements, so if he can, I can too. Offensive to Muslims, who cares, I've already covered that above.

______________________________________________________
All Quotes Attributed to Pastor Jeremiah Wright

“We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye.”

“We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America’s chickens are coming home to roost.” (Sep 2001)

“The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing ‘God Bless America.’ No, no, no, God damn America, that’s in the Bible for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme.” (2003)

“In the 21st century, white America got a wake-up call after 9/11/01. White America and the western world came to realize that people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just ‘disappeared’ as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring black concerns.” (magazine article)

“Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run!…We [in the U.S.] believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God.” (sermon)

“Barack knows what it means living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people. Hillary would never know that. Hillary ain’t never been called a nigger. Hillary has never had a people defined as a non-person.”

“Hillary is married to Bill, and Bill has been good to us. No he ain’t! Bill did us, just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty.” (sermon)

“The Israelis have illegally occupied Palestinian territories for over 40 years now. Divestment has now hit the table again as a strategy to wake the business community and wake up Americans concerning the injustice and the racism under which the Palestinians have lived because of Zionism.”
______________________________________________________________

Do these sound like "Christian" beliefs to you? This is the environment in which our "American" president grew up. He is a Muslim and also a racist... as is Mr Wright, and you think he deserves my respect? Think again !!


Your support for a group of people or a religion who's intent is to destroy this country is misguided, and your myopic diatribe is rife with such falsehoods about Muslim beliefs is totally reprehensible beyond description too. To support this misguided attempt to plunge the knife of 9-11-2001 as deep as possible should be resisted at all costs. These people were not born here, and are not NATIVE AMERICANS, and are not friends to native Americans or the country itself in any way, they simply want to destroy us. Native Americans wishes should always override religious wants and wishes of a peculiar religious group, especially those that violate the written laws of an established Christian nation After all, I was born here, and they were not.

If this was really "a matter of human rights" as you say, why are you not standing up for the "human rights" of Muslim women if human rights mean so much to you? Isn't this just a little hypocritical to protect the very ones who don't respect the "RIGHTS" of their own women? Human rights...I don't think that is really your agenda at all, for if it was, you would be making an issue out of the lack of "human rights" for Muslim women too. You are clearly and purposely not mentioning that topic, as it would expose your very own hypocrisy, but that matters not now, for I have saved you the trouble and exposed your hypocritical viewpoints for you !!!

The Quran justifies and directs Muslims to kill their enemies , and this is not my idea of a friendly religion that should be accepted with open arms, even in a "FREE" nation. The enemy wears robes and head dress !!

Do the Islamic terrorists, or the Islamic Religion itself "Stand on the side of LOVE?" I would bet not, since they treat women like animals and condone killing their enemies and treating them "with extreme prejudice", and they continue to pursue that goal today, just as they have since the beginning of time.

I love your talent for nit picking a complete paragraph out of context, and using it to make your point, again out of context. Very Clever, but very obvious too !!

I wonder how long it will be before used drones become available on the surplus market?
 
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n2rj

Moderator
Staff member
#7
Now for the other issues. What I don't like is that people on both sides are piggybacking issues.

For example, the first post talked about "anti immigrant" rallies. Excuse me but that's a load of horse manure. There are no anti immigrant rallies. There are rallies against the Government protecting ILLEGAL ALIENS. Then there are people who automatically slap terrorism and Islam together. I can understand why they would (my wife almost died in the attacks). But at the same time I have Muslims in my family and some of them are the nicest people I have ever met.

It's time to just put our differences aside and coexist.
 

bicker

DTVUSA Member
#8
Then there are people who automatically slap terrorism and Islam together. I can understand why they would (my wife almost died in the attacks). But at the same time I have Muslims in my family and some of them are the nicest people I have ever met. It's time to just put our differences aside and coexist.
This is the crux of the issue. The implication that there is something wrong with someone subscribing to a religion other than the one you happen to prefer is offensive, regardless of what you feel regarding the underlying issues. My brother worked in 5 WTC, and being late to work probably saved his life, since he actually hadn't gotten into his building when the first tower was hit. (He saw it happen.) However, there is no excuse to paint American Muslims in general with any brush - no excuse whatsoever.
 
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Aaron62

Contributor
Staff member
#9
Problem is, put a Mosque up at ground zero and I guarantee you Osama Bin Laden will have a poster made and framed in his cave. It's a victory for the terrorist Muslims. It sucks that good Muslims and terrorist supporting Muslims are associated sometimes but anytime you murder in the name of religon, it's going to create a PR problem.
 

MrPogi

Moderator, , Webmaster of Cache Free TV
Staff member
#12
Freedom of religion is a basic tenant of America. I really don't think these people are thinking their attitudes through. What, you think that attacking Muslims and making them build churches only where nobody objects will make them like us more???

Wake up people.
 

Aaron62

Contributor
Staff member
#13
If we let the enemy dictate the terms of our own lives, we've lost the war.
They sure dictated the terms of our lives on 9-11, and it's no coincidence that ground zero (or close to) was chosen for the the mosque. They could have built anywhere else. Why there?
 

MrPogi

Moderator, , Webmaster of Cache Free TV
Staff member
#14
The purpose of building a mosque there, I believe, was to promote understanding and communication. Thats not working out too well, now, is it?

As President Obama said, I cannot comment on the wisdom of building there, only that they have the RIGHT to build there. (and he IS NOT MUSLIM, and he IS a US citizen, and our legally elected president, unlike Dick Cheney, our LAST president. While there was controversy surrounding THAT election, once the courts decided it was pretty much accepted by all - we just weren't made aware of the fact that Bush was just a sock puppet.)

I may not agree on the wisdom of building there, and really, all organized religion IMHO is a sham and ALL have engaged in hate and are responsible for more war, ignorance, and misery than anything else in history (crusades, the Inquisition, creationism, witch trials, the excommunication of Galileo, etc, read your history) but I will defend the right to religious freedom. Hey if we really want to ban a religion, how about Scientology? There's a sham thats abused the American system to the max, started as a commercial venture by a science fiction writer and turned religion to avoid taxes, destroyed lives, and is truly a load of crap. But I digress.

Bin Laden is just one of many who would bring down America, think of our "great friends" in China. They pretty much own us now, I tried to warn people but they wouldn't listen. Many of Americas worst enemies are right here within our borders, born and raised here. We call them "Lobbyists", "Career Politicians", and "Corporate Executives". HELLO???

Bin Laden and his kind have twisted words to influence those who are most vulnerable to do his bidding, the poor, the ignorant.

Bicker, you're a real sob and I despise most every thing you have ever written. It really hurts, but I must agree with you in principal on this one. You may feel free to click on the "THANKS" button at the bottom of this post now.

But I still refuse to watch BrokeBack Mountain with you.


(Not intolerant, and its my right to say it just plain creeps me out and I should not be forced to watch it. Go ahead and boycott my work!)
 
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Fringe Reception

Super Moderator, Chief Content Editor
Staff member
#15
Bicker, the above is NOT completely accurate do to a lack of details. The 21 year old man has a history of alcoholism including blackouts and a corresponding arrest record. He recently returned from Afghanistan after working on a film project featuring one of his high school buddies serving there and the military's connection to (love of) Afghani children.

It was reported (elsewhere) the man was drunk as a skunk with an empty bottle of Scotch Whiskey found in his backpack after his arrest. I heard an interview (repeated twice) of the victim himself, and he made absolutely no reference to any "hate crime" or Islamophobia: the word robbery was used. Just like other attacks that happen all too often to cab drivers across the Country, the cabbie simply picked up the wrong fare Tuesday evening. A violent young man fortified by hard liquor.

Certainly, more details will be forthcoming.

Jim
 

Aaron62

Contributor
Staff member
#16
Irregardless of whether it was a hate crime, we do have extremists here in America too which sucks. It's odd for me to me to see people post hate crimes posted against Muslims as if it were an everyday occurrence. It's not. The car bombs in Iraq and Afghanistan were basically hate crimes and there were far more of those committed than deaths from hate crimes here in the good ole US of A.
 

bicker

DTVUSA Member
#17
They sure dictated the terms of our lives on 9-11
No they didn't. We moved forward from 9/11 in spite for their efforts to drive us in a direction other than the one we took.

and it's no coincidence that ground zero (or close to) was chosen for the the mosque. They could have built anywhere else. Why there?
You're operating from an incorrect assumption: The mosque was NEVER going to build on Ground Zero. It was to be built on the location of an old Burlington Coat Factory, two blocks away. How far away does it have to be to be acceptable to you? Why do you get to draw arbitrary lines?

Bicker, you're a real sob and I despise most every thing you have ever written. It really hurts, but I must agree with you in principal on this one.
Yet, your focus on me, personally, even in the positive direction, is immature and inappropriate.

You may feel free to click on the "THANKS" button at the bottom of this post now.
I don't play silly games like that.
 
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bicker

DTVUSA Member
#18
Bicker, the above is NOT completely accurate do to a lack of details.
Well, it was accurate. There were more details, which were available in the linked article.

The 21 year old man has a history of alcoholism including blackouts and a corresponding arrest record.
Yet, that just makes the difference between acting on intolerance and not acting on intolerance - those things do not generally make the difference between being intolerance and not being intolerant.

There is no question that acting on intolerance is worse than just being intolerant and not acting on it, but not being intolerant is better than both.

There's more than enough evidence of offensive anti-Muslim sentiment in our society. Heck, there's a really good example of it posted nearby.
 
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MrPogi

Moderator, , Webmaster of Cache Free TV
Staff member
#19
Originally Posted by MrPogi

Bicker, you're a real sob and I despise most every thing you have ever written. It really hurts, but I must agree with you in principal on this one.



Yet, your focus on me, personally, even in the positive direction, is immature and inappropriate.

Originally Posted by MrPogi

You may feel free to click on the "THANKS" button at the bottom of this post now.



I don't play silly games like that.


See if I ever have a good word for you again. In spite of your call for understanding, you are selfish and self centered, and You, Sir, are an immature child. Grow up.
 

bicker

DTVUSA Member
#20
I'm neither selfish nor self-centered. Indeed, most of what you object to in my messages is my making the point that matters are governed by things much broader than one's own personal preferences, and that what a specific person wants doesn't dictate what that person should be provided. The antithesis of self-centeredness.

I'm also rather mature, which is why I continue to converse with you without resorting to childishness, while you're engaging in puerile name-calling, such as when you called me a "sob". However, it is immaterial: Just stop making any personal comments whatsoever. Stick to the topic. Thanks.
 
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