Question: KNTV in San Francisco

kingofpop

DTVUSA Rookie
#1
Hi,

I live in Noe Valley in San Francisco (24th at Noe) and have purchased a few of the Best Buy HDTV antennas and none of them seem to get KNTV (local NBC station). Searching around online this looks like a common problem, as most of the stations in SF transmit from Sutro Tower. I get great reception for all of these. Sounds like KNTV now transmits either from San Jose or San Bruno, but either way, I don't get it. Any advice as to how I could get reception to KNTV? Happy to buy whatever antenna makes sense to fix this problem!

Thanks in advance for any advice.
 
#2
From Wikipedia : "The station's transmitter is located on San Bruno Mountain, just south of San Francisco. KNTV is one of five Bay Area market television stations that is licensed to San Jose." So it's about 16 miles more to the south.

TV Fool

it is in a substantially different direction, 168 degrees, compared to the others at 269 degrees. That is heading angle measured clockwise from north. So you can try turning your antenna, for one thing. So most of your channels come to you from the west (270 degrees) where Sutro Tower is. But Channel 11 KNTV is basically South of you so try turning the antenna to the south.

(Also, Good to know Michael Jackson is still alive and well!)
 
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nbound-au

The Graveyard Shift
#3
Can you post a link to the TVFool report for your location (use your exact address and mounting height - it wont report the address in the results).

The generic report for a Noe Valley zipcode (94110) lists the station as very strong, if you are amplifying the signal; bypass the amplifier (or if that impossible, and only if thats impossible, turn it off inline).

KNTV is broadcast from San Bruno Mountain.


You may need to turn your antenna towards San Bruno mountain and receive the other stations off the back of it.


Edit: beaten by okie_flats.
 

dave73

DTVUSA Member
#4
What kind of antenna are you using now? If the antenna you're using is optimized for UHF only, then you need to buy another antenna, since KNTV is broadcasting on RF 12, a VHF channel. KGO (RF 7 with UHF translator on RF 35) & KNTV (RF 12) are the only 2 stations in the San Francisco market on VHF (full power that is). If you're getting KGO on RF 35, then just add the Antennacraft Y5-7-13 antenna & point that south
 

kingofpop

DTVUSA Rookie
#5
Here's the report of my address from TV Fool.

TV Fool

The three antennas I've tried are all indoor ones and all do well on everything but cannot seem to find KNTV (Channel 11).

The antennas I've tried are:
1) Terk FDTV2A
2) Antennas Direct Clearstream Micron High Gain Indoor HDTV Antenna
3) RCA Multidirectional Digital Flat Antenna

Any recommendations of something that would add KNTV to the mix? I have all three of these and can just return them to Best Buy since I got them two days ago, so ideally I'd get one that can get all the major network channels.

Thanks again in advance for your help, this stuff is hard to figure out as a novice.
 
#6
This is the elevation profile for channel 11, kntv-nbc : TV Fool

Think your "view" to this transmitter antenna is obstructed but you should probably get it anyway with a better antenna on your end.

How does the southerly direction look to you, in terms of is there buildings in the way that would block the signal more, at least compared to the westerly direction where Sutro Tower is?

Both channel 7-kgo-abc and 11-kntv-nbc are vhf stations, but channel 11 is much weaker for you. So probably with a low gain non-directional antennas like those you tried, it's the signal strength that is the issue. Apparently none of your indoor antennas could benefit much by turning them.

In the urban environment lots of factors can come into play. Such as if you are in an apartment building, which side of the building are you on? Are you on the side of the building that faces the transmitter? Can the signal get to you by coming straight in a window or just one wall? If you are located on the far side of the building relative to the transmitter the signal may have to pass through many walls to get to you, and thus be very attenuated. Or maybe there are other tall nearby buildings also blocking it.
 
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#7
All of the antennas you've tried are UHF designs and are pretty near-sighted on VHF as none of them have a "real" VHF element which, for indoor antennas, would be "rabbit ears".

Your location is complicated. Mt Sutro, with millions of watts of RF (TV and FM radio) coming off it, is right overhead to your west while Mt San Bruno is to your south and is behind a hill.

Your best bet would be to get a separate set of rabbit ears and see if you can find a place where you can get KNTV. A south-facing window would be your best bet. An FM filter will likely be needed.

If you can find a good spot for reception of KNTV and KGO with the rabbit ears., combine them with whatever of those UHF antennas that works using a UVSJ.
 

kingofpop

DTVUSA Rookie
#8
Hi everyone,

Thanks for the thoughts. Still working to get this to work.

On details of the house - I live in a two story cottage located in between the houses you see on the street. The TV is on the ground floor, so the antenna is there too. There are unfortunately no windows on the south side of the house, but lots of windows throughout the house. Behind the south wall of the building, there is a 30 foot long yard, and then a three story house. Pretty much the same as what you would find in almost any San Francisco apartment.

I got a set of rabbit ears antenna from Radio Shack - it's the Radio Shack brand HDTV Antenna 1501874. The instructions say that it receives VHF in 54-88 as well as 174-216 MHz, which appears to be the frequency in which transmits. This also failed to find KNTV.

ProjectSHO89, you'd mentioned I might need to get an FM filter - it was hard to find any information on that, can you provide additional detail? I like close to a Radio Shack and am happy to go to Best Buy or wherever. I've now bought 5 antennas that don't work (fortunately have receipts for them all), but am just hoping to get this fixed.

Humorously, you can check out KNTV's Yelp page, where they are just blasted for this problem. I've never seen a business with just one star. If anyone can help to solve this problem, it will be a great service to the city of San Francisco!

Thanks everyone again in advance for thoughts and advice.
 

nbound-au

The Graveyard Shift
#9
You might have to get a small directional VHF antenna for 11. Though dont buy one just yet, see what the others have to say about your existing antennas or other recommendations.

If you do get a "real antenna" and have an attic it may be a better place to mount the antenna as opposed to inside. Or better yet outside on the roof (though I wouldnt recommend you jump up on a 2 storey roof).

Of course there is always a small chance that going in the attic or outside will cause other problems with Sutro Tower being too strong.

Its hard to give much specific advice on these odder jobs without meter readings
 
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#10
I have all three of these and can just return them to Best Buy since I got them two days ago, so ideally I'd get one that can get all the major network channels.
Question for the group: Isn't there one combination UHF/VHF antenna where you can point the VHF elements in a different direction? I thought the Freevision would do this, but I can't find ANY verification online. Seems like I've seen old rabbit ear/loop combos that do that. It would be a perfect solution fo this guy.

Rick
 

Fringe Reception

Super Moderator, Chief Content Editor
Staff member
#11
Rick,

Several Manufacturers offer (or at least used to offer) combined VHF-UHF antennas where the 'nose' of the antenna containing the UHF directors could be moved right or left of the centerline determined best to receive VHF channels. They may be still available. If you need one, I have a loaner out I can recall for you to work with. Mine, not his.

Jim
 
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nbound-au

The Graveyard Shift
#12
Any of the indoor antennas where the VHF section (the actual "rabbit ears") can be moved independently of the UHF section (usually a loop or mini-yagi) would be a good start. It should be noted that rabbit ears will work best when completely horizontal, not up at an angle like they are often portrayed on TV.
 
#13
If you need one, I have a loaner out I can recall for you to work with. Mine, not his.
It's not for me, for the OP. Shoot, I been thinking he could get one of these super cheap dealies:
Trisonic Rabbit Ear Digital TV Antenna HDTV VHF UHF | eBay
Big DIY project: Twist the UHF loop 50 degrees one way, twist the dipoles 50 degrees the other way (after extending horizontally). Now you have a 100 degree angle. Point and receive away. 50 degrees isn't that far to bend -- just a tad over 45 degrees.

Seems like it should work! :flypig: He only has the one VHF station to round out his lineup very nicely. The signals are very strong, and he's already getting the UHF batch with substandard indoor jobbers. He does NOT need an amplifier with those noise margins. Anyhow, at the price it's a worthy experiment -- unless you experts disagree. He probably has enough coax already. He might need a $2 female to female joiner, cause 3 feet on the Trisonic cheapo prolly ain't enough.

nbound-au said:
Any of the indoor antennas where the VHF section (the actual "rabbit ears") can be moved independently of the UHF section (usually a loop or mini-yagi) would be a good start.
But they usually extend and move up and down. Most of 'em don't twist in the horizontal plane -- unless you apply a little elbow grease.

nbound-au said:
It should be noted that rabbit ears will work best when completely horizontal, not up at an angle like they are often portrayed on TV.
Yeper. :thumb:

Rick
 

nbound-au

The Graveyard Shift
#14
It's not for me, for the OP. Shoot, I been thinking he could get one of these super cheap dealies:
But they usually extend and move up and down. Most of 'em don't twist in the horizontal plane -- unless you apply a little elbow grease.
Some can spin both ways. Like a portable radio antenna. Unless yours dont do that either, haha
 
#15
Some can spin both ways. Like a portable radio antenna. Unless yours dont do that either, haha
Well, an old post on another board says the Winegard HD-1080 (not 1080p) is the "only antenna that does this." But I didn't want to suggest this cause the 1080 gets poor reviews on Amazon for high VHF. Doesn't LQQK like the Trisonic twists that way naturally. Anybody know about the Freevision?

OP asked for a one antenna solution. SEEMS like we should be able to oblige.

Rick
 
#17
I dunno. Is an FM trap typically needed to get RF 12? The signal is very strong -- NM = 51.3 -- though it is 1Edge.

You could try it without the trap first. Keep all receipts. ;)

R.
 

nbound-au

The Graveyard Shift
#18
Some high VHF channels sit on harmonics of FM frequencies, there would have to be a really strong station between 102.0 and 105.0 to be cause causing this interference, and i mean really strong. These issues are pretty uncommon even here. Its worth a shot for $5 though.
 
G

Guest

Guest
#19
I'm in the south bay (campbell). with a Mohu LEAF indoor antenna, I'm able to get 2,4,5,7,9, but not 11. Any ideas of how I might get 11.
 
#20
I'm in the south bay (campbell). with a Mohu LEAF indoor antenna, I'm able to get 2,4,5,7,9, but not 11. Any ideas of how I might get 11.
Please read the first post by SWHouston here: http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv...n/18697-getting-started-over-air-tv-faqs.html Then read these two posts: http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv...cussion/18368-how-ask-dtv-reception-help.html

Don't go to antennaweb.org, the experts have learned TVFool is far more accurate. So use the detailed instructions from SWHouston, then start a new thread in the HDTV Reception and Antenna Discussion area, as suggested by Jason. You will get a lot of suggestions, sometimes conflicting or confusing, but you're a whole lot better off with the experts on your side! Nobody makes a dime off this service.

R.
 
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