My Reception History

#1
I have a winegard VHF-UHF combo with built-in uhf
pre-amp which has been working great for a quarter
century. After the digital conversion I gained a number
of new channels along with great reception but I lost
RF 39 and 41. I had a good signal on RF 19 20 30 31 32
42 and 43, so, I was tempted to leave everything alone
but the chimney brackets were badly corroded and I
wanted to replace them before the whole thing blew
down. I also missed not having RF 39. So, I ordered the
antenna craft MXU47. It arrived damaged with a twenty
degree bend in the boom. Solid Signal was good and sent
out a replacement.

While waiting, I decided to try an old UHF antenna that
I put on my roof twenty years ago but never connected
to anything. It is about the same size as the UHF
section of my combo. 40 L 15 W 30 H. I installed it
along with my new AP-4700 and all new RG-6 cable. My
old cable was RG-59 because I did not know better when
I put it in. (I still have RG-59 going from the
splitter to my five TV's)

I am happy to report that the new system works a bit
better than the old system. The signal level on most
channels is higher but I still don't get 39 and 41.
There was a big improvement on 31 which is good because
it was the weakest and dropped out when the wind blew.
RF 30 got weaker but is still plenty strong and does
not drop out. I was hopeful that the MXU47 would get 39
and 41. The one that I salvaged has sixteen elements
and the MXU47 has 47 elements and is twice as long.

After the second MXU47 arrived damaged, I changed my
order to the 91xg and I just got it and installed it.
Unfortunately, it does not bring in 39. All the other
channels work fine and there was a small improvement on
41 but it is still not watchable and there was a big
improvement on 18. The bottom line is that, so far, it
does not work better than the small, cheap antenna that
I salvaged except for RF 18 which is now excellent.

I will try tilting it up but I am no longer hopeful.
Well, nothing ventured, nothing gained. :) And. I
learned a lot about antennas in this forum.
 

Fringe Reception

Super Moderator, Chief Content Editor
Staff member
#2
freemarket,

Unless you are using a distribution amplifier, sending the signals to 5 televisions significantly reduces signal strength: something like a soaker hose in your yard compared to a nozzle on the end of your hose.

I suggest you try feeding only one TV directly from your antenna and see if Channels 39 and 41 appear. If so, the next step may be to either amplify the signals at your antenna or use a distribution amplifier to 'feed' the 5 TV sets.

If you post your TV Fool report here, we can make suggestions and probably help you.

Jim
 
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#3
Thanks Jim -- I will try running just one TV but I
am not hopeful because all my other channels are
strong and I have been running my five TV's for many
years with no problems. Here is my TV Fool TV Fool
I appreciate any help because I was confident that a new
antenna, cable, and pre-amp would do the trick.
 
#4
Definitely follow Jim's advice & try hooking just 1 set with RG-6 only and no splitter(s).

If that doesn't help, you may need to tweak the aim of the antenna to bring in 39 & 41. Obstacles between the antenna & the transmitters may be causing multipath reflections. These signal reflections may make certain stations come in better with the antenna aimed off axis from their actual compass setting.

Did you experience excessive ghosting with analog reception? This is a sure sign of excessive multipath.
 
#5
Thanks No Static -- All my analog channels came in
great with no ghosting including 39 and 41.
Previously, I tried putting an amp (18 db, 50 - 900
Mhz) just before the splitter and all my channels
became pixelated. I just did it again with the same
results. Next, I will feed just one TV with no
splitter which does sound like an excellent idea.
 
#8
Hello to everyone -- I really appreciate all your
help. I bypassed the the splitter and directly
connected the antenna to one TV. There seemed to be a
small improvement but difficult to say because 39 was
coming in spotty before the change. However, the
slight improvement allowed me to tweak the antenna
direction which gave me a bigger improvement. The
direction change was about ten or twelve degrees.

I then connected all five TV's and three of them are
now getting 39! The signal is averaging 42 according
to my APEX converter but the picture seems steady
with no drop outs for the past hour. The fourth TV is
now getting a signal about 20% of the time while
before, it was zero percent. The bottom line is that
there has been a big improvement. The suggestion to
run just one TV worked out very well.

I was thinking that my AP-4700 uhf pre-amp has a dB
rating of 19 while the AP-4800 has dB of 28. I should
have bought the AP-4800. Would that make an improvement?

I did not try the double re-scan but I will on the
one TV that does not get 39 at all.

Thanks again to all. -- Rick
 

Fringe Reception

Super Moderator, Chief Content Editor
Staff member
#9
Rick,

Glad we helped you. My next suggestion is for you to raise OR lower your antenna 2-5 feet. UHF signals propagate in layers (like a stack of pancakes) and your antenna may be in a 'null'. As an example, I receive my local channel 48 with my antenna between 20 and 22 feet over the peak of my roof: any higher or lower and I have zero signal available to capture. Good luck!

Jim
 
#10
Jim -- I tried lowering the antenna (I cannot raise
it because it is big and on a ten foot mast). I got
an improved reception with a four foot drop and a 20
degree tilt up. The signal level on 39, according to
my APEX converter, went from about 35 to 57. The TV
that was only getting the 39 signal about 20% of the
time was now getting a steady reception. Thanks
again to everyone.
 

Fringe Reception

Super Moderator, Chief Content Editor
Staff member
#11
Rick,

I'm glad you're getting good results and your Channel 39 seems to back dependibly. Now, let's take on your Channel 41.

Is it WVTA 24 (41.1 real)? If so, the REC Network website indicates they were granted changes by the FCC 01/29/10: here's the link: REC Broadcast Query

Disclaimer: I may not be interpreting this correctly, but they may have moved to channel 24. Forum member Trip would be the one to ask about this.
--------------------------------
From the REC website:

2. GRANTED 01/29/2010
Geographic Coordinates: 43-26'14.7 N / 72-27'7.7 W
Channel: 24
Analog Channel: 41
Elevation: 872 m AMSL
Effective ERP: 55.7 kW
Non-Directional Antenna

DIGITAL TV CHANNEL ELECTION
In the First Channel Election - Licensee/Permittee makes the following channel election from its currently assigned NTSC/DTV channels: 24

Jim
--------------------

But wait! Order now and you get the Vegamatic! Did I screw up? I just noticed you have TWO channel 41s on your TVFOOL list. Lemme research it. BRB!

OK, here is the second channel 41 but per your earlier post about receiving (an) analog 41 ... this station is a digital 41.

WLVI http://cdbs.recnet.com/fmq.php?faci...ountry=US&zip=&party=&party_type=LICEN&jaws=0

Accepted for Filing 07/16/2009

Geographic Coordinates: 42-18'10 N / 71-13'7 W
Channel: 41

Elevation: 46 m AMSL
Effective ERP: 690 kW
Directional Antenna

DIGITAL TV CHANNEL ELECTION
In the First Channel Election - Licensee/Permittee makes the following channel election from its currently assigned NTSC/DTV channels: 41

Please advise ...
 
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#12
Thanks Jim -- The channels that I lost were WSBK 38.1
and WLVI 56.1 which are RF 39 and RF 41. I had good
reception When they were analog 38 and analog 56. I
did not watch channel 56 very much. The channel that
I wanted to get back was WSBK 38.1 (RF 39) and now,
thanks to you guys, I got it back! I am also now
getting 56.1 (RF 41) but not steady.

My antenna is now pointed at about 222 degrees
magnetic or about 16 degrees south of the the
direction provided by TV fool which is mag 238
degrees. I am also tilted up about 10 degrees.
 

Fringe Reception

Super Moderator, Chief Content Editor
Staff member
#13
Rick,

How much difference do you see with your antenna flat VS having it mounted at a 10 degree tilt and is this regarding your Channel 39, other or all Channels? The reason I ask is having it tilted may improve one channel but detract from another, such as your 41.

You may have seen in my albums here, I also built a ten degree tilt-mount and I tried it on two different Yagis while hunting for 1-edge signals, but I saw no difference in my reception.

Jim
 
#14
"The reason I ask is having it tilted may improve
one channel but detract from another, such as your
41."

Jim -- The same thing happened to me. When I got the
right direction (222 degrees) to bring in 41, one of
my strongest channels, 20 (ABC), became weak and was
occasionally dropping out. I then tilted up ten
degrees and that brought back 20 but it caused me to
lose RF 18 (RTN) which was strong before the tilt
and has some good programs.

The last tweaking was difficult because I have no
two-way communication. I had my assistant monitor 41
and then run outside and yell the results to me on
the roof. It is a very slow and awkward method and I
don't know what is happening on the other channels
untill I lock the antenna in place and then
personally view all the channels.

Since it is not easy to hold the antenna steady for
several minutes, I now think it best for me to make
one tweak, lock it in place, and then take a day or
two to evaluate the results. Fortunately, my home is
only one story and the roof is not steep. --Rick
 
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