New UHF Antenna Is Up, this is the 91 element

[okie_flats]

Here is the original one I had been using. Combined VHF/UHF from Radio Shack. 13 feet overall length. Looks to be actually a Winegard antenna it seems?



Here is the new UHF 91 element,

Antennas Direct : Antennas Direct 91XG UHF TV Antenna (91XG) from Solid Signal

Installed on the same pole.



91 Element, about 8 feet overall length :

 

[Jim1348]

New UHF Antenna Is Up, This Is The 91 Element

Wow, you should get some gain out of that!

 

[nbound-au]

I assume much improved UHF reception, i noticed you said in another thread that you werent getting CBS. If its possible it might be worth moving the antenna around to find the sweet spot (and hopefully not lose something else important). 2edge signals are always pesky

It is of course always possible that its just not strong enough where you live, but at least you would know. And short of massive antennas or a high-gain single channel antenna, you dont have much room to improve antenna wise.

How long is your TV run and are their any splits... a pre-amp may help if your system is large (or to overcome tuner noise).

 

[okie_flats]

I've been moving the antenna direction and re-scanning and checking it out.

This morning I am getting both Ch 5 CBS and Ch 9 KQED-PBS (both of them UHF) but they are still dropping out, too weak to watch something, they come in for a while then go away.

Not getting ch 2 FOX so far, but in the past I did get it with the old antenna sometimes. Probably work better in the summer without the clouds and fog.

I really want CBS because of some of my favorite programs, CBS Sunday Morning, CBS News, Face the Nation, of course 60 Minutes,...

Yes much better UHF. I scanned and got 50 total channels. Sometimes more. That is compared to getting about 18 to 28 channels with the old antenna, and 5 of those were VHF - 7.1,2,3 and 11.1,2. So overall much better UHF, and I lost 7 and 11 of course because they are VHF and give ABC and NBC.

I am now getting analog 25 KRON very well, which was impossible before.

I have 40 ft coax, goes to a grounding union, then another 15 to 20 ft coax going into the house, so very long, maybe 60 ft total.

I had bought the 40 ft coax at the local electronics supply, they sell it in bulk by the foot, and put the ends on myself, but didn't know what I was doing and they are loose, so I'm sure that should be re-done or replaced.

 

[nbound-au]

yes, get the ends done properly (all joins introduce loss, poor joins moreso) and a pre-amp on the mast may help with that length (make sure the pre-amp is a low noise variety, ideally less than 2dB noise factor). If you still dont get CBS you will need to start considering a walk around the roof holding up the mast and seeing if it comes in better anywhere else.

 

[MrPogi]

I had bought the 40 ft coax at the local electronics supply, they sell it in bulk by the foot, and put the ends on myself, but didn't know what I was doing and they are loose, so I'm sure that should be re-done or replaced.

Did you use a proper compression tool and fittings?

 

[nbound-au]

Hex crimps will also be fine.


All outside crimps/joins should be waterproofed appropriately.

 

[EscapeVelocity]

Im not a fan of the XG91. It is very directional, which can be beneficial, however I prefer a wider pattern, in general. But especially for areas where you are pointing through trees.

My favoites are the BowTies, Hovermans, Double Loops, Folded Dipoles, Vees, and the Traveling Wave!

 

[Jim1348]

New UHF Antenna Is Up, This Is The 91 Element

Which coaxial cable did you use? Is it just RG-6 or is it something better?

 

[Fringe Reception]

LOL! EV is back with his traveling wave design from 1958!

 

[EscapeVelocity]

I still dont have the foggiest idea about the electro-magnetic theory behind that thing! I still havent liberated that old abandoned Traveling Wave on Highway 61 in Boonieville SC!

I like the Vee'd VHF section of the antenna pictured in the OP. Id someone to make a folded dipole version.

 

[nbound-au]

Im not a fan of the XG91. It is very directional, which can be beneficial, however I prefer a wider pattern, in general. But especially for areas where you are pointing through trees.

My favoites are the BowTies, Hovermans, Double Loops, Folded Dipoles, Vees, and the Traveling Wave!

A 16bay bowtie which was my other suggestion for him (and an insane one at that), is also very directional and has a beamwidth of only around +/- 10 degrees. My Fracarro catalogue lists a 91el at +/- 17 degrees. (both measured to -3dB points).

A widebeamed bowtie antenna like a 4bay (+/- 24-30 degrees) doesnt have enough gain to boost up his very low NM on important channels to a usable level. And even an 8bay is only +/- 15 degrees.

Phased antennas (bowties) dramatically reduce beamwidth and should be avoided if multiple sites are preferred.

Which coaxial cable did you use? Is it just RG-6 or is it something better?

I wouldnt recomment running RG11 for a home, the cost and pain of running outweigh the benefits.

 

[EscapeVelocity]

I highly recommend this one, nobound-au...

Antenncraft G1483 Double Stack

The vertical stack keeps the wider beamwidth. I love this thing! (You can build your own too, but you probably know that.) As it says...

"Guaranteed to Outperform all other 8-Bay HD TV Antennas!!! "

Anyways, carry on, sorry for derailing.

 

[Fringe Reception]

I highly recommend this one, nobound-au...

Antenncraft G1483 Double Stack

The vertical stack keeps the wider beamwidth. I love this thing! (You can build your own too, but you probably know that.) As it says...

"Guaranteed to Outperform all other 8-Bay HD TV Antennas!!! "

Anyways, carry on, sorry for derailing.

I DO NOT recommend that antenna unless you get one free so you can afford to rebuild it because the build-quality is crap. If a dedicated Sparrow decided to land on a reflector element there is a 50% chance the element would snap off. Pathetic plastic engineering.

I have a 16-Bay version and it has amazed me ... pieces falling off almost every week. good design-junk build.

Jim

 

[EscapeVelocity]

Yeah, the build quality is crap, but the performance is dynamite.

PS - The build quality of the XG91 is not awe inspiring either.

Dont let me scare you off nobound-au. I love Aussies.

 

[nbound-au]

I highly recommend this one, nobound-au...

Antenncraft G1483 Double Stack

The vertical stack keeps the wider beamwidth. I love this thing! (You can build your own too, but you probably know that.) As it says...

"Guaranteed to Outperform all other 8-Bay HD TV Antennas!!! "

Anyways, carry on, sorry for derailing.

Indeed vertical stacking will keep the horizontal beamwidth, but affects the vertical beamwidth instead. Can be a problem if sites are at different heights, or defract over different sized hills...

For a 2edge signal you may also have trouble keeping the entire antenna in the sweet spot. Whereas a 91el has a small crossection than a 4bay. If okie_flats had a meter this would be no issue of course.

I DO NOT recommend that antenna unless you get one free so you can afford to rebuild it because the build-quality is crap. If a dedicated Sparrow decided to land on a reflector element there is a 50% chance the element would snap off. Pathetic plastic engineering.

I have a 16-Bay version and it has amazed me ... pieces falling off almost every week. good design-junk build.

Jim

Welcome to every chinese antenna, ever

There was one I was aware of here a while back that would often break during assembly onsite.

Im hoping to move all my gear to Australian and Euro manufactured gear soon.

Yeah, the build quality is crap, but the performance is dynamite.

PS - The build quality of the XG91 is not awe inspiring either.

Dont let me scare you off nobound-au. I love Aussies.

Will take more then an enthusiatic Yank to get rid of me

 

[dave73]

Looking at another thread, & pulling up the OP's TV Fool, I can not see getting ABC (KGO-TV) or NBC (KNTV), since both stations are the full power VHF stations, & that's a UHF only antenna. If ABC & NBC aren't important, then fine. I'm just saying that this antenna isn't gonna cut it for 2 full power VHF stations. Either a Winegard YA1713 or Antennacraft Y10-7-13 antenna will need to be added.

 

[nbound-au]

In the original thread he states he will combine this 91el with his existing antenna if required. But a new antenna may do a better job depending on condition

 

[okie_flats]

I guess I can watch Ch 5 CBS sometimes now. Been watching it for an hour just now. It only went pixilated a little a few times. It is reporting signal strength of 18. In the 15 to 18 range.

For example, Ch 20 comes in for me good now all the time. It is reliable now. With the old antenna it came in for me only sometimes. It was spotty then, but not now. It is reporting signal strength of 18 now also. Sometimes it goes over 20 a little.

Sometimes can't get Ch 5 at all. So apparently it gives signal strength from 18 down to much lower sometimes and almost zero. Not reliable but it comes in good sometimes.

The converter box, also the ATSC TV I have, both have diagnostic functions on them that tell you antenna signal strength on a scale from 0 to 100. Can use that to help turn the antenna to the best direction, or just get a number for strength. My strongest station is my nearby PBS, 22 KRCB which is giving me a strength of 80 even though the antenna is not even pointed in that direction.

Looks like if I can get about 18 or above strength for a particular channel I get a reliable picture. For Ch 5 that appears to be true only sometimes.

( Ch 5 came in good for about 2 1/2 hours. Now at 7:30 pm it is dropping out, getting a blank screen sometimes. )

10 PM update : CBS came in good all evening; except tried to drop out about 3 different times but just came right back in. Not bad.

 

[Fringe Reception]

... The converter box, also the ATSC TV I have, both have diagnostic functions on them that tell you antenna signal strength on a scale from 0 to 100.

okie_flats,

The 0-100 'meter reading' is not signal strength, it is actually signal quality or data stream quality.

A weak signal with a 'clean' data stream will always trump a strong signal with a damaged or confused data stream. This can be represented as signal-to-noise-ratio.

'Noise' can be reflected signals that are (also) being collected by your antenna and they are competing with the primary signals, thus confusing your tuner. This multipath interference is the same as ghosting on your screen that we all saw back in the analog days.

I suggest you try raising or lowering your antenna a few inches or a foot or two and you may find a better height where interfering 'noise' is reduced. If you swing your antenna a few degrees right or left, the apparent "signal strength" may reduce but it may also reduce the offending multipath signal echo to a point where your tuner cannot 'see' it, thus it no longer confuses it.

You're working in a world of black magic and pixie dust and subtle changes in your setup may work wonders for your reception.

Jim