Question: Nothing but reds and yellows

ArxFortis

DTVUSA Jr. Member
#1
Here is my tvfool.com analysis:
TV Fool

My current setup is extremely basic. It's essentially the "best" UHF indoor they had at Wal-mart. It has a powered amp. I have also used an old set-top UHF loop (I took off the two VHF parts) with identical results.

I live on a ridge at about 2,150 elevation. It's a fairly mountainous area.

Starting at the top of the TVfool list, this is all I get:

WLOS (shows as 13.1)
WUNF-TV (shows as 33.1)
WEMT-DT (shows as 39.1)
and (oddly) WYCW (shows as 62.1)
(plus all the available .2 and .3 for those channels)
It's only 10 channels all together.


I don't get any NBC. I imagine its because the only decent NBC signal is down at ch 5. This is lower VHF, yes?

I know I need a roof mount and I plan to start with an omni to see what new channels can get. If I need to add a directional NBC, I will later.

What roof mount omni should I get for my situation?

Thanks!
 

Trip

Moderator, , , Webmaster of: Rabbit Ears
Staff member
#2
Hey:

Omnis aren't a good idea, particularly in mountainous areas where multipath can be a real issue. I will leave the antenna selection to the experts, but let me make the following notes:

1) You will want something with low-VHF for WCYB, if you want NBC. Apparently WYFF is completely terrain blocked from your location such that it doesn't appear on your TV Fool at all.

2) WYCW doesn't really surprise me. It's technically licensed to Asheville so one would expect it to have coverage.

3) WSPA has filed to convert their translators to digital, so at some point you may be able to get CBS-HD and RTV. (W09AR-D on 43 is the translator in question.)

4) WEMT has a permit to relocate such that it may no longer be receivable after the move. BUT...

5) WHNS has a permit to convert translator W35AV to digital operation, which would potentially restore Fox to you.

NBC seems like it's going to be the really difficult network for you. Low-VHF is very difficult, but hopefully it will work for you in this case.

- Trip
 

MrPogi

Moderator, , Webmaster of Cache Free TV
Staff member
#3
A lot of edge signals you've got there. I wouldn't pick a spot on the roof and put up an antenna, I would hook up an antenna then walk it around to find a sweet spot. Edge signals are kind of tricky, a few feet can make a difference (even moving DOWN sometimes improves reception!)

Omni = Bad Idea. You will be disappointed. You might want to try a uhf antenna for most of your channels, and a separate VHF-lo for channel 5.

You could always put up the UHF first and add the VHF later with a UHF/VHF splitter / combiner.
 

ArxFortis

DTVUSA Jr. Member
#4
Thanks to both of you. Since I can get most everything I want with my little basic loop (except NBC). I may start with a directional, indoor antenna to try to pick up WCYB. Any recommendations?
 

Fringe Reception

Super Moderator, Chief Content Editor
Staff member
#5
:welcome: ArxFortis,

I installed an antenna system about 30 miles south of the Seattle TV towers a couple years ago using an old-style Channel Master 4221 for UHF and a High-band VHF Yagi. You could install a similar system using a Low-band VHF antenna, but I assure you it will be a monster. If you are willing to try something like this http://www.dtvusaforum.com/members/...eceives-35-channels-approx-15-above-roof.html let us know and we can make specific antenna suggestions.

Jim
 
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ArxFortis

DTVUSA Jr. Member
#6
Thanks Jim.

I just spent some time reading on Yagi antennas. I have an old satellite dish mast on my house. I'm probably going to get a yagi, mount it on that mast and orient it to 39 degrees. I'll also try 183 degrees. (The HD converter box on my other TV shows a weak signal on 36, so I might actually have some luck with the Yagi pointed that way.) Worst case, I imagine I'll have to get a tall mast.

One more question...what's the best way to tie the two different (Yagi + my cheap UHF loop) antennas together?

** EDIT: Actually scratch the 183 degrees for 36. Doh! It's not VHF. :)
 
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Trip

Moderator, , , Webmaster of: Rabbit Ears
Staff member
#7
If you're actually seeing signal on channel 36, that means you might be able to pull in NBC from Greenville SC with a good antenna. If you could get it, WYFF would likely be more reliable than WCYB on low-VHF.

A high-gain roof antenna would probably be necessary, but might get you a full compliment of network affiliates from the market that way, especially when the WSPA and WHNS translators go digital.

- Trip
 

Fringe Reception

Super Moderator, Chief Content Editor
Staff member
#8
ArxFortis,

You cannot use a standard splitter to combine VHF and UHF signals. You need to use a (visually similar) device called a UVSJ (Uhf-Vhf-Signal-Joiner) and Radio Shack has them: Part Number 15-2586. There are many other sources as well. Please keep us posted on your progress.

Jim
 

MrPogi

Moderator, , Webmaster of Cache Free TV
Staff member
#9
I have an old satellite dish mast on my house
These J-pipes from Sat dishes are great if they're in a good location for your antenna, and a pain to move if not. I moved mine, I just put the original bolts back in the holes with a little roofing cement to seal it, and mounted it in the new spot with fresh bolts and some roofing sealer.

One thing you should know is they are a larger diameter than most antenna mounting hardware. Go to the chain-link fencing section of your hardware store and you'll find a piece intended to join 2 sections of pipe, they will slide inside your J-pipe. (cost is about 2 bucks) Slide it in 1/2 way. Secure it with a few self-tapping screws, and your antenna should mounting hardware should JUST fit over the part thats sticking out.
 
#10
It's essentially the "best" UHF indoor they had at Wal-mart. I have also used an old set-top UHF loop (I took off the two VHF parts) with identical results.

I don't get any NBC. I imagine its because the only decent NBC signal is down at ch 5. This is lower VHF, yes?
I can't suggest any VHF antenna that is assured to work. TVfool does not add low band noise, so the NM values for WCYB are optimistic. There is a wide variation of signal levels for WCYB near you. http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=80&q=call=WCYB-TV&type=D&sitenum=0


How exact is the location in TVfool? If you use the on line TV maps feature, does the push pin end up exactly on your house?
 
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Aaron62

Contributor
Staff member
#11
Funny. I had a problem with seeing Black and Yellows on my TV screen but that all ended after the Super Bowl. :) Sorry, I'm in a goofy mood today.

[video=youtube;SxEOWOji8xw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxEOWOji8xw[/video]
 

ArxFortis

DTVUSA Jr. Member
#12
I can't suggest any VHF antenna that is assured to work. TVfool does not add low band noise, so the NM values for WCYB are optimistic. There is a wide variation of signal levels for WCYB near you. TV Fool


How exact is the location in TVfool? If you use the on line TV maps feature, does the push pin end up exactly on your house?
The location is exact. I moved the push pin to be right on top of my house.
 

Trip

Moderator, , , Webmaster of: Rabbit Ears
Staff member
#13
TVFool (and other similar sites, for that matter) only has 100 meter accuracy, so in heavily mountainous areas, actual results can vary quite a bit.

- Trip
 

ArxFortis

DTVUSA Jr. Member
#16
So the more I read about low-VHF, the more I convinced myself I needed a channel-specific Yagi. I am not really looking to bring in a bunch more channels (mainly because there really aren't many more to be had here). I just want to add NBC. I found that Blonder Tongue has a range of channel-specific Yagi's for low VHF, FM, and high VHF ( http://www.sateng.com/downloads/bty.pdf ) - except that they want $453.44 for one. They must really like their antennas.

I ended up ordering this Walmart.com: RCA Suburban Mini Yagi Digital Outdoor Antenna with Mast: TV & Video It should be here in a few days. Its suggested range is about 40 miles, but many of the overwhelmingly positive reviews have some people mentioning distances of 50-70 miles - one in SW Virginia which has terrain very similar to mine. I'm going to mount it as MrPogi suggested above. I'll keep everyone posted. Thanks again to everyone.
 

Fringe Reception

Super Moderator, Chief Content Editor
Staff member
#17
ArxFortis,

It will be interesting to see you results, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Mileage claims in antenna advertising is nonsense. A well designed antenna doesn't only 'see' into the distance, it needs to be able to reject or ignore signals that are coming from reflections or different directions: the term is multipath.

I receive a 2-edge station 75 miles away using a 15 element high gain home-brew Yagi, taking advantage of its gain. On the other hand, I receive a one-edge station less than a mile from me using a 12 element high-gain home-brew Yagi, taking advantage of its ability to ignore multipath signals: in this case, the signal to noise ratio is in my favor. Its a bit of a black art.

Jim
 
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