Question: Two stations - one channel number ?

fletch99

DTVUSA Member
#1
I know this does not seem possible but I have a Samsung TV that has scanned two different digital stations on 21.2. Is this a fluke or are these new tuners designed to do this.

21.2 - Trinity Broadcast Network Tidewater VA - RF 7
21.2 - Fox21 Delmarva MD or DE - RF ?

(Also get 16.1 WBOC so I'm pretty sure Fox21 is in the Delmarva area somewhere)
 

Don_M

DTVUSA Member
#2
Well, one thing's for sure: Your tuner can do this! Here's what you're apparently getting:

• WBOC, Salisbury, MD (RF 16) carries both CBS on virtual 16-1 and Fox on virtual 21-2.

• WHRE, Virginia Beach, VA (RF 7) carries Trinity's five subchannels on 21-1, 21-3, 21-4 and 21-5 in addition to 21-2.

Salisbury being at at least 100 miles away from WHRE, your experience is evidence of E-skip. Skip is an atmospheric condition during which clean signals propagate far beyond the normal radio "horizon," which is typically about 70 miles out. Here's a forecast page with maps suggesting that your region may have had good skip conditions in recent days.
 

BCF68

DTVUSA Member
#3
Well, one thing's for sure: Your tuner can do this! Here's what you're apparently getting:

• WBOC, Salisbury, MD (RF 16) carries both CBS on virtual 16-1 and Fox on virtual 21-2.

• WHRE, Virginia Beach, VA (RF 7) carries Trinity's five subchannels on 21-1, 21-3, 21-4 and 21-5 in addition to 21-2.

Salisbury being at at least 100 miles away from WHRE, your experience is evidence of E-skip. Skip is an atmospheric condition during which clean signals propagate far beyond the normal radio "horizon," which is typically about 70 miles out. Here's a forecast page with maps suggesting that your region may have had good skip conditions in recent days.
Not to be nit picky but "tropo" and e-skip are 2 different thing are they not? Like last night I was getting in the Memphis stations 120 miles away. There has been some strong tropospheric ducting lately in my area. E-skip is like last year before the cut off and I was getting in analog stations from Miami 850 miles away. "Tropo" I almost always get at night for me where as e-skip I've only gotten in the day.
 

n2rj

Moderator
Staff member
#6
I have a similar situation here.

WNJJ-LD (which I watch ALL of the time, not) and WXTV-DT are both virtual channel 41.

The Samsung HDTV seems to be fine with it. I can navigate both channels.

The Apex DT250 CECB does not. It gets either one or the other. I am still puzzled as to WHY the FCC would allow two stations with the same virtual channel in the same DMA but this is what we have.
 

n2rj

Moderator
Staff member
#7
Not to be nit picky but "tropo" and e-skip are 2 different thing are they not? Like last night I was getting in the Memphis stations 120 miles away. There has been some strong tropospheric ducting lately in my area. E-skip is like last year before the cut off and I was getting in analog stations from Miami 850 miles away. "Tropo" I almost always get at night for me where as e-skip I've only gotten in the day.
That is correct,

Tropospheric ducting uses the troposphere. Signals are reflected by a duct formed by temperature inversion.

E skip uses the E layer of the ionosphere.

E skip allows longer distances. On ham radio I have talked to people as far away as Miami, Texas and Bermuda using e skip.
 

BCF68

DTVUSA Member
#8
That is correct,

Tropospheric ducting uses the troposphere. Signals are reflected by a duct formed by temperature inversion.

E skip uses the E layer of the ionosphere.

E skip allows longer distances. On ham radio I have talked to people as far away as Miami, Texas and Bermuda using e skip.
Also in I'm not mistaken e-skip is unlikely to happen above Ch 6.
 

Fringe Reception

Super Moderator, Chief Content Editor
Staff member
#10
BCF68, et al:

Take a look at this Tutorial about Troposcopic Ducting: Propagation Tutorial - Tropospheric scattering

We experiences it here once last Fall or early winter while watching KVOS-12 (real, 35) about 75 miles away. Their signal is always dependible here received on my cut-to-35 Yagi (22 feet above the roofline) but oddly one evening we received it on our CM-4228 pointing 90 degrees away from the transmitter, 5 feet below my roofline in my back yard. I switched the antennas back to the Yagi and the signal was 100% rather than the usual 65 on the onboard dignosis signal 'meter'. A few minutes later, the signal faded away to zero and was unavailable for about 45 minutes. A rain storm or hail storm could explain the signal loss, but to me, Tropo best explains the incredible signal strength increase.

Jim
 

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