We are diluting our Objective Status

[Piggie]

There have been two antenna manufacturers here or those that sell antennas posting on the forum.

I do not believe this forum will have an ounce of objective information if there is a motivation for those that sells antennas to post the attributes and links here to their antennas.

That is the purpose of a commercial website and to do it here is not only free advertising but dilutes any discussion of various antennas.

This is much to the core why I got discussed before. I could not understand why Jay allowed this. But I find out Jay besides his wedding has had a lot of personal issues making even checking his own forum moot.

I say there should be a rule that you can answer questions about an antenna you make, but not repeatedly tout the fact it's for sale.

If it were my forum it would stop altogether with no allowed discussion of one's own antenna.

 

[EscapeVelocity]

Shouldnt this be in the moderator/conrtrib zone?

 

[Orrymain]

I do know that Jay has a lot going on and I think that's why some things have gotten out of control. I agree, Piggie, the site should be objective and helpful. Questions should be answered and links are appropriate. Perhaps there could be a separate Marketing area. Let the spammers, that's what they are, promote their stuff there. If people want to read that section, they can. Meanwhile, those just wanting help, can find it objectively here.

 

[Piggie]

Orry, that is an interesting concept of an advertising area, so it's know to be that. Hmm... Good idea. Hope other ideas also come.... Thanks! )

 

[JER]

Piggie,

I've been in contact with Jay too. He has too many things on his plate right now to have to deal with two people who have gotten off on the wrong foot. I propose we work out our differences without involving him.

I'm a reasonable and rational person. Let's find common ground and work to improve the forum. Send me a PM or pick up the phone and call me. We can and should work this out (off-line) for the benefit of the group.

Thanks!

John

 

[EscapeVelocity]

My 2 cents besides the post in the Mod/Contrib Zone that no one has responded to.

Is that its great to have an actual antenna engineer designer on the site....well informed and full of technical information, sharing it with the forum.

That he might refer to the antennas that he has designed is a given....and nothing wrong with that.


I think Piggie doesnt like being contradicted (who does). That is why political talk was also cited in his initial rants last week. He has already stated that he doesnt like my contrarian, non conventiona wisdom antenna talk, at one point a while ago, stating that it aggravates him greatly.

I just think everyone needs to chill out. And if I have to move my Kosmic Antennas: SuperQuad and Tune-A-Tenna thread...then so be it.

 

[EscapeVelocity]

I mean, if we were an Automobile Forum and the guy who designed the new Chevy Camaro came on the sight....would you run him off for peddling his merchandise.

For Pete's Sake!

 

[EscapeVelocity]

This seems to be Piggie enforcing his politics on the forum. Similar to how Rush got the ole bump from consideration for buying an NFL Franchise.

First he doesnt like me, as the unabashed American Conservative. And he certainly doesnt like Antennas Direct, which he has also made perfectly clear. By persecuting Antennas Direct, he is diluting the forum's objective status. He wont recommend the great CM 7777 amplifier anymore, because of the movement of CM's antenna shop to China last year. Winegard and AntennCraft are the only products he will recommend.

Now that is all fine an dandy. Those are certainly reasons which are behind his opinions. However blasting everyone who has another opinion on the matter isnt valid...its Stalinist. And thus this sites objective status is diluted by Piggie's political opinions.

But its everyone else's fault, heh? :Cry:

No small surprise, all this reminds me of Leftwing victimization politics....combined with anti Capitalist sentiment. You would think that people would cheer upstart American antenna companies, like AD, Digitenna, and now me....instead of being their enemy and pulling the drawbridge up behind a smaller and smaller lot of long established US Antenna Manufacturers....Unionesque! Reminds me of the GM bailout.

 

[EscapeVelocity]

Might as well put a disclaimer at the top of the forum header.

We only recommend Winegard and AntennaCraft products for political reasons. Those looking for objective help, should look elsewhere. We are shills for those 2 companies.

 

[JER]

Thanks EV!

I've done some thinking and I've decided that its probably best that I go back to my lab and antenna simulators and let you, Jay, and the rest of the moderators here figure out what kind of forum environment you're trying to build.

Take care!

John

 

[Piggie]

Shouldnt this be in the moderator/conrtrib zone?

I think many regular posters here that are not mods or contribs need hear this out. I think it needs to be in the open, what ever is decided. I do wish Jay wasn't so tied up to put in more input. It's not my forum but his. I am opening the discussion so he can read it and decide.

 

[Piggie]

Might as well put a disclaimer at the top of the forum header.

We only recommend Winegard and AntennaCraft products for political reasons. Those looking for objective help, should look elsewhere. We are shills for those 2 companies.

Thanks EV!

I've done some thinking and I've decided that its probably best that I go back to my lab and antenna simulators and let you, Jay, and the rest of the moderators here figure out what kind of forum environment you're trying to build.

Take care!

John

Well this answers my questions, thanks for the honest straight forward answers.

I really don't have the time I had, as I am not longer unemployed either.

The spin here is out of control calling an economic view point a political view point.

It also then implies the time I spent of my own here was political in advocating Winegard, Radio Shack and AntennaCraft antennas.

This is the spin I expected.

I know I have helped hundreds here and AVS solve antenna problems, even if I ain't no antenna engineer.

Considering I have very little time any more and will further add more of prejudice (all good things to accuse someone you want to get rid of, or discount), my advice to people would not help.

Has anyone noticed how many regulars are not here any more or post very little?

I can't see why I need to stay. I am out voted by those that want this forum to head onward.

Yes, Jay is tied up. That is too bad at this time. It's his forum, not mine.

I think from the consensus I need to leave, permanently, as I now longer fit the mold of those that seem to want this place.

Unless I see changes I can't say I even want to stay here. I can't be a mod and a poster. Maybe I need to give up mod status and just post. Or I need to be the Super Mod my title says and just look for things I think are over the top. But this gets difficult when I am not the owner.

So my best choice would be to remain just a poster. Contrib I don't even want at this point.

There aren't enough core posters here to have both regulars and mods. Part of the problem all along. Not sure how to solve this.

But unless things change I don't have a lot of reason to post here much. Maybe some comments out side the antenna sections, since, yes, I am prejudice toward certain antenna, but I don't have a nickel invested in either company.

So I am going silent for the most part and requesting I am not longer a mod.

 

[EscapeVelocity]

Shakes head. You are a piece of work, Piggie.

 

[Orrymain]

Orry, that is an interesting concept of an advertising area, so it's know to be that. Hmm... Good idea. Hope other ideas also come.... Thanks! )

+++bows+++

You're oh-so-welcome! I just have seen that work on other sites very nicely. It allows those who are interested to read the ads and those you aren't don't feel spammed.

 

[Orrymain]

You know, I think this is ridiculous. Piggie got upset a while back and left. A lot of us wanted him back, and he returned. Escape, I have nothing against you, but I didn't like that you and JER suddenly had this back and forth 'pick on Piggie' fest on page one of this post. JER, you had said that you were rational, etc., but then you engage in this questionable behavior.

To be honest, I haven't paid attention to who did the antenna ads. Here's my view. If you're helping someone and it fits, plug your stuff. However, this isn't a sales site so to do a straight self-promotion isn't appropriate unless Jay sets up a place for it or decides he wants to go that route.

I object to the way that politics get brought into everything. Left wing, right wing -- who friggin' cares. This forum is about DTVs, stereos, home theater systems, TVs, and even antennas. It is not about left and right wings, unless it's in the political section.

People aren't posting anymore because of the venom coming from you guys, and you need to think about that. I've had no problems with any of you, and I don't want to now, but I see this place dying if you guys can't be grown ups. Running away and leaving isn't the answer, either.

Jay, when you read this, what you need is not another moderator, but someone you trust to be a co-administrator. Either that, or you need to give your super moderator some big power to speak on your behalf. I guess my other question is what exactly is the role of a moderator. In my experience, moderators have powers to keep things on track. They can delete posts that don't fit and silence those who get out of line. Yet, we have moderators fighting with each other. I'm just confused on why that is the way it is.

Anywho, guys, please, let's chill out. Take a step back and remember where you are. Keep the politics out of it before you kill the forum entirely.

 

[JER]

I'm not running away but I am going to stay on the side lines a while until Jay and the rest of the moderators, including Piggie, figure out what kind of place they want this to be.

BTW: I'm happy to talk to Piggie any time. He knows where to reach me. Piggie and I have both been in this business a long time and I'm sure we have plenty of common ground, but when two people get off to a bad start its often hard to hit the "reset" button. That's especially true on these forums where everything is written and it seems no matter how carefully we choose our words its still possible that someone somewhere reads them and gets a different meaning than the one we intended.

Piggie, if you're reading this, I'm offering to buy you a virtual beer, or whatever other virtual drink you wish, and sit down and talk off-line.

Take care everyone!

 

[EscapeVelocity]

Orryman, Piggie started with the theatrics and finger pointing. And thus started this thread, directly attacking me and JER.

His last post continued on with the assertion that his POV/opinion is the right one and should be the law of the land, and everyone who dissagrees with him, should hit the road....with the ultimatum seemingly, them or me.

I know that people have left this site because of Piggie. But he seems to think they left because of me or something.

I never attacked Piggie or questioned his objectivity, even knowing his biases. He is the one who went postal, storming out, then wanting to have a public airing of his gripes. I tried to move it to a private venue.

As to politics, the most popular form of literary analysis in Uni is now Marxist Analysis. Welcome to the world created by the New Left, where everything is politicized. Just like Piggie has done with his bias as objectivity and Stalinist purging of non conformists...that is currently underway.

I wish this didnt happen, and people could accept that others have different POVs without being shills and hucksters. But alas...

 

[EscapeVelocity]

Piggie give great advice and has vast knowledge and shares it. But he isnt the only one that has helped hundreds and thousands of people with their TV woes. Just about everyone here has.

 

[Trip]

As to politics, the most popular form of literary analysis in Uni is now Marxist Analysis. Welcome to the world created by the New Left, where everything is politicized. Just like Piggie has done with his bias as objectivity and Stalinist purging of non conformists...that is currently underway.

There's nothing quite like responding to complaints about dragging politics into everything by dragging politics into it.

- Trip

 

[Orrymain]

Quite honestly, Escape, of the three of you, you are the most negative. That's just how I see it. You are the one who usually digs up the political element as well. I appreciate how you help people, but at the same time, being honest, I think you are driving people away by the constant arguing and accusations. Take it to private message and leave it off the forum. That's my point of view. Ultimately, it's up to Jay. I've already sent him a message with my feelings on the subject. Maybe he likes all the debate. I don't know. This is his site, so ultimately, we all have to abide by what he wants or go elsewhere.