Widescreen TV and a 4:3 TV

KenJavo

DTVUSA Rookie
#1
I want to make sure the converter that I purchase is capable of putting out 16:9 picture to my widescreen TV and I need another one that's capable of 4:3. Which ones should I get and I'd like to know of one that has both capabilities.
 

1inxs

DTVUSA Member
#2
I believe most of the CECBs are capable of both 4.3 or 16.9. Here is a link with all the CECBs available. You can do a google search to verify the specifications you want.
I want to make sure the converter that I purchase is capable of putting out 16:9 picture to my widescreen TV and I need another one that's capable of 4:3. Which ones should I get and I'd like to know of one that has both capabilities.
 

Jason Fritz

Administrator
Staff member
#4
Unfortunately, the coupon eligible converters can only put out 480i - for other definitions, you would have to get one that can do those outputs.

You may be able to set your TV's screen dimensions so that it can "letter-box" the 480i picture. Won't be as pretty as the picture you'd get from a full-featured (not coupon-eligible) converter box, though.
Your a little off Div, but that's ok, I forgive ya ;)

According to the CECB Wiki,

[edit] NTIA absolute requirements

A digital TV converter boxThese requirements are absolutely required, but may vary in the way they are provided by the box.

CECBs must convert all ATSC formats to NTSC.

The units must support a 4:3 center crop of a 16:9 transmitted image, and a letterbox rendition of a 16:9 transmitted image.

An RF output, as well as baseband video and stereo audio outputs must be supplied.

All CECB's outputs must produce video at an ITU-R BT.500-11 quality scale of Grade 4 or higher.

CECBs must include a remote control and be controllable by universal remote controls.

Must support decoding of Emergency Alert System (EAS) messages and Parental Control (V-Chip) descriptors and Closed Captioning streams.

Program and System Information Protocol (PSIP) data must be decoded, and the units must provide the user with tuned channel and program information.

CECBs must consume no more than an average of 2 watts of power when passive (no video or audio display).

CECBs must provide an automatic power-down feature [that can be turned off] when operator input has not been detected for a certain time.

Various RF sensitivity and interference rejection performance parameters are also required.
 

Piggie

Super Moderator
#5
Unfortunately, the coupon eligible converters can only put out 480i - for other definitions, you would have to get one that can do those outputs.

You may be able to set your TV's screen dimensions so that it can "letter-box" the 480i picture. Won't be as pretty as the picture you'd get from a full-featured (not coupon-eligible) converter box, though.
Whoa horsies!! divx is on the money at least with this part of the post I can still see because Jay referenced it.

===

1) CECB boxes only put on 480i
2) CECB (most) can do 4:3 full screen or 16:9 in a letter box output. Some do a side cropped and some do a stretch (what ever good this does).
3) CECB can only have an RF or composite output, neither of which is capable of HD output.

---------

480i, 720p, 1080i have nothing at all to do with the shape of the picture. They describe how many equivalent horizontal lines or a way to horizontal resolution of the picture. But they don't mean it has any given shape.

Now widescreen usually refers to a 16:9 ratio or the shape of the picture. As does 4:3.

So you can have a 1080i signal that is 4:3. Example, HD station transmitting SD program but converting to 1080i before transmitting it. Yes yes, it's still SD but it is in fact being transmitted and received as 1080i.

Then hook a regular DVD player to a widescreen TV and you have a perfect example of 16:9 or widescreen, yet the resolution is 480i.

>>>>>>

Hence resolution and the shape of a picture have nothing to do with each other.

Now that swallowed, when a CECB puts out 16:9, it's done in letter box. If it's shown on a widescreen TV when the TV is in natural or normal zoom, then not only won't it fill the screen vertically, but it won't be any wider than a regular SD 4:3 shown on a widescreen with black bars on the sides.

The only way you get a CECB to fill the screen of a widescreen TV while viewing a station sending a widescreen signal, to also zoom the TV. Often it's a compromise as all TV's and all CECBs don't zoom the same.

===============================================

All that said, if the OP has an HD widescreen and wants HD on it but the TV doesn't have a built in tuner they need a fancier converter box that puts out HD in a HDMI or DVI connector or bare minimum on component output.

Just like they were connecting a BluRay player to a HD TV.

His older 4:3 TV can use an inexpensive CECB just fine.

divxhacker you were right one dude.
 

1inxs

DTVUSA Member
#6
He never mentioned HD in his post. If you want to get technical he doesn't need a converter box for his HDTV and any CECB will work for his 4.3 SDTV. I try to keep it short and simple.;)
EDIT
I didn't think about an older HD monitor without the tuner, so hopefully the OP will read to the end of your post for the full story. I didn't think about it from this perspective. I missed this point until I re-read your post:thumb:
Whoa horsies!! divx is on the money at least with this part of the post I can still see because Jay referenced it.

===

1) CECB boxes only put on 480i
2) CECB (most) can do 4:3 full screen or 16:9 in a letter box output. Some do a side cropped and some do a stretch (what ever good this does).
3) CECB can only have an RF or composite output, neither of which is capable of HD output.

---------

480i, 720p, 1080i have nothing at all to do with the shape of the picture. They describe how many equivalent horizontal lines or a way to horizontal resolution of the picture. But they don't mean it has any given shape.

Now widescreen usually refers to a 16:9 ratio or the shape of the picture. As does 4:3.

So you can have a 1080i signal that is 4:3. Example, HD station transmitting SD program but converting to 1080i before transmitting it. Yes yes, it's still SD but it is in fact being transmitted and received as 1080i.

Then hook a regular DVD player to a widescreen TV and you have a perfect example of 16:9 or widescreen, yet the resolution is 480i.

>>>>>>

Hence resolution and the shape of a picture have nothing to do with each other.

Now that swallowed, when a CECB puts out 16:9, it's done in letter box. If it's shown on a widescreen TV when the TV is in natural or normal zoom, then not only won't it fill the screen vertically, but it won't be any wider than a regular SD 4:3 shown on a widescreen with black bars on the sides.

The only way you get a CECB to fill the screen of a widescreen TV while viewing a station sending a widescreen signal, to also zoom the TV. Often it's a compromise as all TV's and all CECBs don't zoom the same.

===============================================

All that said, if the OP has an HD widescreen and wants HD on it but the TV doesn't have a built in tuner they need a fancier converter box that puts out HD in a HDMI or DVI connector or bare minimum on component output.

Just like they were connecting a BluRay player to a HD TV.

His older 4:3 TV can use an inexpensive CECB just fine.

divxhacker you were right one dude.
 
Last edited:

Jason Fritz

Administrator
Staff member
#7
Whoa horsies!! divx is on the money at least with this part of the post I can still see because Jay referenced it.

===

1) CECB boxes only put on 480i
2) CECB (most) can do 4:3 full screen or 16:9 in a letter box output. Some do a side cropped and some do a stretch (what ever good this does).
3) CECB can only have an RF or composite output, neither of which is capable of HD output.

---------

480i, 720p, 1080i have nothing at all to do with the shape of the picture. They describe how many equivalent horizontal lines or a way to horizontal resolution of the picture. But they don't mean it has any given shape.

Now widescreen usually refers to a 16:9 ratio or the shape of the picture. As does 4:3.

So you can have a 1080i signal that is 4:3. Example, HD station transmitting SD program but converting to 1080i before transmitting it. Yes yes, it's still SD but it is in fact being transmitted and received as 1080i.

Then hook a regular DVD player to a widescreen TV and you have a perfect example of 16:9 or widescreen, yet the resolution is 480i.

>>>>>>

Hence resolution and the shape of a picture have nothing to do with each other.

Now that swallowed, when a CECB puts out 16:9, it's done in letter box. If it's shown on a widescreen TV when the TV is in natural or normal zoom, then not only won't it fill the screen vertically, but it won't be any wider than a regular SD 4:3 shown on a widescreen with black bars on the sides.

The only way you get a CECB to fill the screen of a widescreen TV while viewing a station sending a widescreen signal, to also zoom the TV. Often it's a compromise as all TV's and all CECBs don't zoom the same.

===============================================

All that said, if the OP has an HD widescreen and wants HD on it but the TV doesn't have a built in tuner they need a fancier converter box that puts out HD in a HDMI or DVI connector or bare minimum on component output.

Just like they were connecting a BluRay player to a HD TV.

His older 4:3 TV can use an inexpensive CECB just fine.

divxhacker you were right one dude.
and now I stand corrected! :p I didn't mean to imply that he was off on the output of 480i
 
Last edited:

divxhacker

DTVUSA Member
#8
Whoa horsies!! divxhacker you were right one dude.
Oh, you are far too nice to this silly fool. I'm having a bit of a bad day as I accidentally washed a 4GB flash drive which is now nothing more than a 10 gram paperweight. Nothing lost on it, all copies of stuff on my server's hard drives.
 

Piggie

Super Moderator
#9
Oh, you are far too nice to this silly fool. I'm having a bit of a bad day as I accidentally washed a 4GB flash drive which is now nothing more than a 10 gram paperweight. Nothing lost on it, all copies of stuff on my server's hard drives.
Oh, I a have those days, divx.

And to all concerned it won't be long till I post something screwed up!

It's why it takes more than one person to be on a board to answer questions.

And if the OP's widescreen is NOT HD, and has zoom in the TV, you can just buy a CECB.

I have a DTVPal Plus hooked to a non HD widescreen at my house right now and it works.

One thing I have never tried is hooking a CECB to a real HD widescreen, to see how it looks. I am sure you would have to use the video output to even get a half decent picture.
 
#10
all of them can do 16:9 and 4:3, but it's standard definition only. Personally, on an older television with a square screen, I keep it at 4:3.

I haven't seen many standard def analog tv's with widescreen, maybe sony did it with the wegas a few years ago, or rear projection.
 
#11
Sadly some converters have limited zoom capabilities even with a standard 4:3 TV.

Case in point. our PBS or KET channels are in SD-only, 4:3 aspect ratio, but on any TV i have with a screen size higher than 19" it shows up as a 'postage stamp' or in the correct terminology, 'Window-boxed' which means it hardly fills more than 13" of a 25" console TV Tube. which sucks if you want all your 25" or higher. the box won't allow it to zoom and gives the error 'Aspect Ratio cannot be changed on this channel' and you're stuck with a smaller than normal picture dead-center of the screen. if it were broadcast in 16:9 widescreen it seems all zoom functions are available. i have yet to find the box which allows it to work regardless of the broadcast format, so what i do when this happens is set the aspect ratio in the box's menu to '16:9 widescreen' and i can then get zoom to work on the channels using 4:3 broadcast aspect ratio. or in the case of widescreen TVs having problems viewing 16:9 broadcasts with the letterboxing i set it to '4:3 standard' and then try zoom again. why the box refuses to zoom when the broadcast aspect ratio and the locally set aspect ratios match is beyond me.
 

Piggie

Super Moderator
#12
all of them can do 16:9 and 4:3, but it's standard definition only. Personally, on an older television with a square screen, I keep it at 4:3.

I haven't seen many standard def analog tv's with widescreen, maybe sony did it with the wegas a few years ago, or rear projection.
I have a Toshiba 26 inch tube wide screen that only displays 480i.

So say I tune an OTA transmitting 1080i or 720p, it down converts to my picture tube as 480i.

Now that said, they do something to help, as I have hooked an Insignia and a DTVPal Plus to that TV even into the video inputs and the built in tuner has better picture quality.
 

Piggie

Super Moderator
#13
Sadly some converters have limited zoom capabilities even with a standard 4:3 TV.

Case in point. our PBS or KET channels are in SD-only, 4:3 aspect ratio, but on any TV i have with a screen size higher than 19" it shows up as a 'postage stamp' or in the correct terminology, 'Window-boxed' which means it hardly fills more than 13" of a 25" console TV Tube. which sucks if you want all your 25" or higher. the box won't allow it to zoom and gives the error 'Aspect Ratio cannot be changed on this channel' and you're stuck with a smaller than normal picture dead-center of the screen. if it were broadcast in 16:9 widescreen it seems all zoom functions are available. i have yet to find the box which allows it to work regardless of the broadcast format, so what i do when this happens is set the aspect ratio in the box's menu to '16:9 widescreen' and i can then get zoom to work on the channels using 4:3 broadcast aspect ratio. or in the case of widescreen TVs having problems viewing 16:9 broadcasts with the letterboxing i set it to '4:3 standard' and then try zoom again. why the box refuses to zoom when the broadcast aspect ratio and the locally set aspect ratios match is beyond me.
PBS has shows that are not 4:3 or 16:9 and don't fill the screen. Recently there was a rerun called The Last Days of the Filmore that I had to zoom to even come close to filling the screen. But then the old film it was recorded on was so bad, it was blurry beyond watchable. Without zooming it was so small it was not watchable. I just listened to the program as I wanted to hear the music.
 
Top